MELISSA CLARKE, ABC NEWS: It's now time for our political panel. We've got a lot to cover, so we'll see what we can rocket through in the next ten minutes or so. Joining me, I have the Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care- sorry, Ged Kearney, I'm looking in two different directions at once. And also the- I’ve got the Assistant Minister- I am in a mix because we've had a lot of news today, so I'm sorry, Ged. We have the Assistant Minister for Health and Aged Care. I nearly gave you a promotion there. So thank you for joining us. And Anne Ruston, the Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care and Sport, as well. Thank you for joining me too.
We’ve got two health focused individuals. That's great, because we've had some really interesting news this week from the Royal Australian College of GPs. They've had a report looking at the health of the nation, and there's been some really interesting details about bulk billing. And Anne, I just want to talk to you about this, because it shows that the proportion of bulk billing by GPs has increased since the Government increased the incentive for GPs to bulk bill. Does this suggest that maybe the Coalition, when you were in government, maybe should have looked at increasing the incentive for bulk billing to try and lift those rates while you were in government?
ANNE RUSTON, SHADOW MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGED CARE: Well, I mean, the facts of the matter here are that when we were in government, bulk billing rates were significantly higher than they are now. So, over the term of this government, we've actually seen bulk billing rates drop by 11 per cent. So I think we've got a pretty proud record around what we did on bulk billing when we were in government.
CLARKE: But we've got more GPs now bulk billing, but fewer patients getting the benefits of bulk billing. Is that the right ?
RUSTON: Well, there's a whole heap of things that are happening here. People have never been paying more out of pocket expenses. We're seeing people - and the health of the nation report showed this - we're seeing people not going to the doctor because they're worried about how much it costs. But in relation to bulk billing, there has been a significant drop since we were in government of the bulk billing rate. It's dropped by 11 per cent. There has been obviously some action since the increase in the bulk billing incentive rate, but the reality is that we had a great track record for bulk billing, and we have seen this really significant decline occurring under this government. So I think you need to read the report in the context of not just a point in time, but where it's come from.
CLARKE: Okay. Ged Kearney, we have seen, as the report says, the proportion of GPs, so the number of GPs who are bulk billing going up, but the overall total coming down. Is the mix the right one?
GED KEARNEY, ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGED CARE: I think it really depends on how you look at bulk billing. And sure, maybe the number of clinics that claim to be bulk billing clinics may have decreased. But you have to look at the number of individual attendants that are actually bulk billed. And we've seen 6 million extra bulk billing presentations since we've introduced our reforms. And we have had the largest investment, in fact, in the 2 or 3 years that- nearly three years that we've been in Government, we've had more investment in bulk billing, more investment in Medicare rebates than in the full nine years that the previous government was in place. So the- I really welcome the RACGP reports. It's full of really good news. There's more GPs that are satisfied with being in general practice, there are more graduates considering doing general practice as a career, which is great. We've had an increase in the number of postgraduate students doing general practice as a speciality. We're seeing more people, for example, getting satisfaction in First Nations run health organisations. There's some really great news in that report that shows that all of the reforms that we are doing, they're working well and we're really pleased with that.
CLARKE: The RACGP does, though, from this report, say that they do want to see an increase for the rebate for longer consults. They say for consults that are 20 minutes or more, and that's becoming an increasingly common service provided by GPs, that people do have more complex medical needs. They do need more time, and they think they need a 20 per cent increase in the rebate in that space. Is that something the government could do to try and help improve the affordability of longer consults?
KEARNEY: Well, the Minister has said, since he became Health Minister, that Medicare is no longer fit for purpose. We've got a Medicare system that was designed with good intentions back in the 1980s, and here we are in 2024, where we have far increased incidence of chronic disease, very sadly seeing mental health becoming a bigger issue. And of course, both…
CLARKE: I think the report says that was the most predominant thing people are asking for an appointment for.
KEARNEY: Correct. And so it only follows that we're seeing different types of consultation occurring. And we recognise that. And that's why we've had the record investment that I mentioned before. But it's also why we have initiated several reviews into primary healthcare to see how we can bolster that, how we can make it better. And of course-
CLARKE: I think we'll come back to some of those. But just on longer consults, is that something that you could invest in to make an immediate difference?
KEARNEY: Well, we'll certainly look at the review and we will consider it. We have a continuous MBS review process and we will certainly take into account what the RACGP is telling us. But I think it's part of a bigger reform of the whole system. Like we've introduced My Medicare, for example, which is a great innovation for people with chronic conditions, which means GPs get funded slightly differently. It's an incentive to help people with chronic conditions stay out of hospital. And that is a reform that we think, over time, will really benefit.
CLARKE: All right. I just want to come to Anne. Just, longer consults is clearly something that the College of GPs identifies as an area of needing assistance. Is this a case of simply more support through a rebate would help with this problem, or does it need to be a part of a broader reform?
RUSTON: Well, I think this needs to be part of a broader reform, because you also, as you dig into that report, you see that eight out of ten GPs are concerned about the viability of their practise going forward. You know, we certainly know that the further you get away from the metropolitan area, rural, regional and remote communities, we're seeing completely different challenges. But the reality is, the biggest challenge that is before us at the moment is workforce. That's largely focused around primary care, but it goes right the way through our healthcare system. And I think it's all well and good to do reviews and talk things up as the Shadow- sorry, as the Assistant Minister has done…
CLARKE: I'm glad it's you also making mistakes and not just me, for the record. But thank you.
RUSTON: We’re interchangeable. Interchangeable. But the reality is that you can talk the big talk about strengthening Medicare and the positive things that we're talking about. But the reality is that, you know, people when they turn up at their doctors and they go to pay their bill, they're paying more than they've ever paid before. And that's even if they can get an appointment in the first place. We've seen a doubling of the amount of Australians who say they're not going to see a doctor because they can't afford to do that. But unless we address this crisis that is our workforce, and unless we address it in rural, regional and remote Australia, we're seeing Australians who are having inequitable access to healthcare. But just about every Australian is struggling to see a GP at the moment. So I think we actually need to first and foremost look at workforce, because if you haven't got the doctors, it doesn't matter how much money you put in there, people still can't get an appointment.
CLARKE: And Ged, this is an important point, because the health of the nation report calls for a greater investment in training places for GPs, I think it was 100 a year for the next five years to get an extra 500 places of training. Is that something that's feasible? Is that something that we can ramp up to try and address the crisis?
KEARNEY: Look, I agree with Anne that workforce is crucial. And as we sit around the table discussing the health system, workforce, workforce, workforce, you know. And we already have invested a lot in trying to increase the medical workforce, the nursing workforce, the allied health workforce. And the Minister said today in Question Time, he went through a number of really great reforms that we're doing. For example, we're having a single employer model for registrars. We're trialling that right across Tasmania and New South Wales. That's been incredibly successful, where registrars can still- they're employed by one single employer and can still get access to annual leave, paid parental leave, sick leave - that's really been terrific. We've seen an increase in GP training, the RACGP themselves have recognised that and, certainly there's more work to do there. We've seen a 60 per cent increase in international doctors coming from places like the UK and, of course, they are required as international graduates to go to rural and regional places.
So, we are-
CLARKE: There's a range of levers?
KEARNEY: There's a range of levers and sure, there's more to do. We can't just magic doctors out of the air - I would love to, but we can't. And it takes, you know, six, 10, 11 years to train a GP or a GP specialist. And we have the reviews as well. So it's, not only about magic-ing up general practitioners, which we're working really hard to do, but it's also about our workforce, our broader health workforce - and I know Anne supports me in this - making sure that our midwives, our nurse practitioners, our allied health professionals are all used to their full scope of practice.
CLARKE: Look, I think we could keep going on with health the whole time, but there are a couple of other issues I want to touch on. One of them today being the social media summit that the New South Wales and South Australian Governments are jointly holding. That comes as Anthony Albanese has said he's asked the states to come to him with their information and ideas and thoughts about how to have a nationwide strategy of an age restriction for social media use. But it does seem the states are moving much quicker than the Federal Government is here. We are at risk of having states heading off with different plans and different details if the Federal Government doesn't move quickly enough with this?
KEARNEY: Look, I think that's a good question, Mel, which is why we are hastening slowly at a federal level, because the last thing we want is a disjointed program. So, we do want the states and territories to be as one on this, and that's why the summit was really terrific to have everybody there and to be working on this together with the states and territories. The last thing we want is to impose something federally that we don't have the states on board with. You know, we do have the joys of a federation as you know.
So, this is something we are really committed to doing. We want to make sure we get the age of the restriction right, and that everybody is on board with that; we're listening to all the experts around this. We're doing trials on the age identification process; and I think it's something that we are committed to - and it's something that the community is asking us for. I was at a school fundraiser recently where there were lots of parents there and someone - it was a comedy night - and one of the comedians asked the parents, are you in support of this? And resoundingly, yes. And I asked a young Year 12-. group of year 12, what did they think? One lovely young woman said to me, well, when I was 13, I would have said no. But now that I'm mature and…
CLARKE: Now she's aged and has wisdom.
KEARNEY: …nearly 17, she actually said to me, I could have done without that. And I'm thinking, wow, this is really something important, and we're committed to it.
CLARKE: Anne, is this something that we can get some consensus on between the different levels of government and between Government and Opposition on?
RUSTON: Well, Peter Dutton was one of the first ones out saying that we needed to do something about addressing the incredibly negative impacts we've seen on younger Australians from social media - notwithstanding that there are some positive benefits that come from social media, I'm not saying all social media activity is bad. But we have seen such a devastating impact on young people's mental health, much of which can be tracked back to some of the stuff that happens on social media.
So, we were first out of the blocks on this. And so, you know, obviously we're really delighted to see that the Federal Government has now come in behind it. We've seen these two state governments in New South Wales and my home state of South Australia taking up the mantle on this. But I think the point that we need to make sure that if we're going to do any of this, that they are nationally consistent in their approach - whether it be age, whether it be what's excluded, what's included. How we do-
CLARKE: So, you're happy to have those discussions and perhaps move around on the idea of age to make sure everyone is consistent? There's not a fixed view on the specific age that we might have this implemented in?
RUSTON: Well, I think that's the beauty of something like today, that you can get the experts and you can talk about it. But I think the most important thing is that we have a national consistency in every regard, because kids move around. I mean, you could be living in Albury and you could be living in Wodonga and you've got two different sets of rules would be just ridiculous. So, I think the national consistency about this approach is very, very important.
CLARKE: All right. Let's see if we can squeeze in two more issues to chat to you both about today. We've seen in the House of Representatives, we've had the Government set up an inquiry to, or a committee to look at nuclear power, which is very much about the Opposition's policy. Why have we got the Government setting up a committee to look at an Opposition policy?
KEARNEY: I've got to say, Mel, that I get a lot of incoming from my electorate about their concerns about establishing a nuclear power industry in Australia. They are very worried about it for all the obvious reasons. But also the fact that we know it's very expensive, that it will not deliver energy to- only about 4 per cent of energy needs will be delivered via nuclear power. It will take years to build. It's in the never, never. And, I think there are some myths out there about nuclear power, and I think an inquiry will bring all of that together and will show the people of Australia that we are absolutely committed to ironing out and nutting out the truths about nuclear power.
CLARKE: So, this is an inquiry that's being set up to knock down the Coalition's policy?
KEARNEY: Well, I think it's about airing people's concerns. It's giving the expert community an opportunity to go somewhere where their concerns are recorded and taken seriously and looked at seriously. So, I think it is a very serious inquiry, and I think it will give all the experts out there - either side - the opportunity to put the case.
CLARKE: Anne, is this an opportunity for the coalition to provide a bit more information about its nuclear policy so that some of these questions can be answered?
RUSTON: Well look, to be perfectly honest, this is nothing more than a political stunt. I mean, today we tried to amend the terms of reference of this committee to include the very things that Ged's just talked about - about the affordability. They refused. So, the Government actually voted so that the changes to the terms of reference around reliability and affordability, the very things that they're talking about, have been excluded from the terms of reference of this committee. So I would say, if you're really genuine about getting to the bottom of the issues you say you're being genuine of getting to the bottom of it, then maybe you will put into this inquiry the things that Australians are actually asking for.
CLARKE: All right. And, Anne, look, we can't wrap things up today before I ask you, particularly as a South Australian, about the news today that Australia has seemed to have secured a deal with China to get rock lobster exports to China started again in time for Chinese New Year in January. That must be pretty welcome news for producers in your state.
RUSTON: Well, yeah. Being the home of the southern rock lobster in South Australia, you know, my fishermen will be very pleased to hear the news. Because, you know, of course, they're a significant part of our economy, they're a huge contributor to rural and regional South Australia. So, obviously we're delighted. Well, on behalf of the rock lobster fishermen in South Australia, I'm sure they're absolutely delighted.
CLARKE: And Ged, this must be a considered a sign that the relationship between Australia and China continues to improve as we have yet another trade barrier knocked down.
KEARNEY: Yeah. Because the relationship and the reason we don't have that trade was the relationship was so badly spoiled by the previous Government. So, I think Anthony Albanese, our Prime Minister, is doing a great job in re-establishing diplomatic ties and re-establishing that relationship means that our trade is going to improve. And I'm so glad for Anne and the rock lobsters.
CLARKE: But perhaps bad news for Australians hoping for another Christmas of cheap crayfish on the Christmas table. Ged Kearney, thank you very much for joining us. And Anne Ruston, to you too, thank you very much.
Media event date:
Date published:
Media type:
Transcript
Audience:
General public
Minister: