Deputy Chief Medical Officer, Professor Michael Kidd's interview on Radio National Breakfast on 16 February 2021

Read the transcript of Deputy Chief Medical Officer, Professor Michael Kidd's interview on Radio National Breakfast on 16 February 2021 about coronavirus (COVID-19).

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FRAN KELLY:

Well, if you're one of the Australians in the first groups to get the COVID-19 vaccine, you can expect to be rolling up your sleeves from Monday - 142,000 doses of the Pfizer vaccine have arrived in Sydney from Europe, heralding the start of the much anticipated roll out of $6.3 billion national vaccination program.

[Excerpt]

GREG HUNT:

We give Australians hope and protection. They're the two things: hope and protection.

[End of Excerpt]

FRAN KELLY:

The Federal Health Minister, Greg Hunt. The vials are currently being stored in a ultra-cold freezer in a secret location, and they'll be tested before being divided up between the states. Michael Kidd is the Deputy Chief Medical Officer. Michael Kidd, welcome back to Breakfast.

MICHAEL KIDD:

Good morning, Fran.

FRAN KELLY:

Well, this is a moment we've been hoping for, and I think hope is the right word there, as the minister has suggested. The first shipment of COVID vaccines has arrived. Can you just talk us through the logistics now? What tests does the Therapeutic Goods Administration have to run on these vials? And how long will that take?

MICHAEL KIDD:

Yeah. So Therapeutic Goods Administration needs approximately a week in order to carry out its assessment to make sure that there's been no compromise of the cold chain for these vaccines. As you mentioned, these vaccines have to be kept at very low temperatures to make sure there's been no tampering with the vaccines during the shipping, and also the batch testing to ensure that each of the batches is going to be safe and effective for using in Australia. And then, of course, the vaccines will need to be distributed again, keeping that very low temperature stable, out to the states and territories, to the hubs from which there'll be- our people will be immunised.

FRAN KELLY:

Yeah, obviously that cold storage is very tricky and difficult to manage. But there seems to be a real air of security around this - the vials are being kept it a secret location. What's the concern? Is there a concern that they could be stolen? Or?

MICHAEL KIDD:

Well, the security is not unusual with medications and vaccines coming into Australia. We have to make sure that that there is no tampering in particular of these products, to ensure that they remain safe and effective for use. But, of course, increased security concerns with the COVID-19 vaccines are all around the world. These- This is a very special commodity and it's very important in Australia that these vaccines are delivered to the people who are most at risk, and at the top of our priority list

FRAN KELLY:

And talking of the top of the priority list, we've got 142,000 vials. I understand 60,000 doses will be shared out between the states. Who's going to get a jab from Monday?

MICHAEL KIDD:

Yes. So each of the states and territories will be determining who comes in first. The people who are at the top of the list are the people who are working in our quarantine facilities and the people who are working on our borders - these are the people in Australia who are most at risk of coming into direct contact with someone infected with COVID-19. Also at the top of the list are many of our frontline health care workers who are working in areas where, again, we have patients with COVID-19 - these are the people who'll be providing care to those people. There'll also be another 30 million doses, which are going to be distributed out-

FRAN KELLY:

[Interrupts] Thirty thousand.

MICHAEL KIDD:

Sorry, yep, 30,000 [laughs] 30,000 doses which are going to be distributed out to residential aged care facilities and disability care facilities around the country to vaccinate the initial vaccination of residents and staff.

FRAN KELLY:

Okay, so let's look at that. The 60,000 doses are being kept for the second vaccination. But 50,000 divided up between the states and territories for those frontline quarantine and border control workers - is there a uniform protocol in place? Can the states decide themselves who gets it first? Or should we be saying, well, if you're in a hotel quarantine, you go first. If you get the- if you're actually the baggage handler taking people onto the bus to the, to the hotel quarantine, you should get? Is there rules?

MICHAEL KIDD:

So each of the states and territories is determining which people in their jurisdiction are most at risk of COVID-19. These discussions are taking place with the Commonwealth's COVID-19 Vaccine Task Force. And the most important thing is that the people who are most at risk, the people in direct contact with people with COVID-19, are the people who are getting the first doses of the vaccine.

FRAN KELLY:

Okay. But that's for each state to mandate, decide who those are?

MICHAEL KIDD:

Yes.

FRAN KELLY:

The other 30,000 are going to the federal aged care workers and residents and people with disability. I mean, that's a drop in the ocean, too. I mean, I know we don't have enough for everybody at the moment, but there's something like 180,000 residents in aged care alone, not to mention disability care - and that's not the workforce - so, it's only going to be a small amount. When will that level of the population, that layer of the population be fully vaccinated.

MICHAEL KIDD:

So, this of course depends on how quickly we get further doses of COVID-19 vaccine in Australia. We are expecting further shipments of the Pfizer vaccine, we're also expecting very soon that the Therapeutic Goods Administration will complete its assessment of the AstraZeneca vaccine and its use. We have doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine on order from overseas, expected to arrive in March once those- if and when those approvals come through. And also, of course, we'll be producing- well, we are producing the AstraZeneca vaccine onshore in Australia through CSL.

FRAN KELLY:

Okay. But just in terms of the Pfizer doses, we've got the first 80,000. Do you expect another arrival shipment this week? Next week? When will we get- when we get them?

MICHAEL KIDD:

So, we are hoping that we're going to get shipments occurring each week over the coming few weeks. But of course, we don't have a shipment of vaccine in Australia until we have a shipment of vaccine in Australia. So we are subject to the, the pressures which we're seeing all around the world with the supply of these vaccines.

FRAN KELLY:

I think the minister was hinting that we might get approval for the AstraZeneca vaccine from the TGA as early as this week. Is that fair to say? Fair to hope for?

MICHAEL KIDD:

Look, I certainly hope we get the decision through very quickly because that's going to mean that we can fast track our vaccination of our population even quicker than, than before.

FRAN KELLY:

Okay. So, if we do that and then the AstraZeneca vaccine can be rolled out - we've got many more doses of that on hand from March. Just back to the aged care population, 183,000 people in residential aged care and others in the workforce - will be- because there's going to be now an argument about, well, people will be thinking already think about, I want the Pfizer vaccine because that's know more efficacious. But, you know, the fact is there's going to be more AstraZeneca. Will the Pfizer vaccine be the priority vaccine to aged care.

MICHAEL KIDD:

So, we need to wait and see what recommendations are made by the Therapeutic Goods Administration. So the TGA will advise us which population groups the vaccine is appropriate to use in, and then the Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation, ATAGI, goes through and provides much more specific details. So we need to wait for those details to come through. As we saw with the Pfizer vaccine when the TGA announced it, it says, yep, we've given provisional approval, this vaccine can be used in anyone aged- over the age of 16 - so that was the basic guidance - and then ATAGI goes through and provides advice about specific groups in the population.

FRAN KELLY:

And back to the logistics again. We're all very well aware now that the Pfizer vaccine is difficult to roll out because it needs to be kept so cold - between -60 and -90 degrees. What's the federal government - the minister's expressed great confidence in the readiness of the states and territories for this - but what level of wastage is built in to the rollout? And who monitors that?

MICHAEL KIDD:

Well, every, every dose is being monitored, every vial. We're expecting the people who are administering the vaccine are making sure that there is no wastage which is occurring. As we say, this is a very precious commodity. At this time, it's important that we are maximising the use of the doses that we have available. [Indistinct]…

FRAN KELLY:

[Interrupts] But whose monitoring that, if there's a problem in one, in one spot?

MICHAEL KIDD: 

Yep. Everyone who's delivering the vaccine is required to report back to the Commonwealth about what's happening with the - with the doses. If there is a problem that occurs with any of the vials, or with any of the doses, then that's expected to be reported.

FRAN KELLY:

And more broadly, back to the AstraZeneca rollout, the minister said that we- from sometime in late March, we might be up to one million doses a week being made available. That's a lot of doses. But what about the administration? Where's the workforce to, to roll that out? At what pace?

MICHAEL KIDD:

Well of course, the workforce already exists. We already have very wide scale vaccination programmes in Australia through general practice, through pharmacies, through state and territory…

FRAN KELLY:

[Talks over] Nothing like this rate. I mean

MICHAEL KIDD:

…state and territory centres.

FRAN KELLY:

[Talks over] I mean, a lot of GP's and chemists are a part of that, but they're always- they're busy anyway. So, I mean, this is going to be ramping that up?

MICHAEL KIDD:

Yes. So, we've had over 5000 general practices which have put the hand up to be part of the rollout of the vaccine. We do expect very quickly to scale up to have 1000 sites across the country, and then 2000 sites across the country where people will be coming in to get their vaccines, people will be booking in as we move through the priority populations. And again, really important that we're not wasting any doses of these vaccines, that once we open up one of the vials that we're giving all the doses and each of those vials.

FRAN KELLY:

Michael, thank you very much for joining us.

MICHAEL KIDD:

Thanks, Fran.

FRAN KELLY:

Dr Michael Kidd is the Deputy Chief Medical Officer

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