RAY HADLEY:
Professor Alison McMillan is the Federal Government's Chief Nursing and Midwifery Officer. She's on the line right now. Professor McMillan, good morning to you.
ALISON McMILLAN:
Good morning, Ray.
RAY HADLEY:
Now, vaccination. Because I've lived through this, just like you have, I guess, and the rest of us, when this all hit us last year and we went into lockdown and we thought, what are we going to do, we're doomed forever? And everyone said, no, a vaccines the way out, but a vaccines two years off. All of a sudden, we get a vaccine and we get all forms of vaccine - AstraZeneca, Moderna, Pfizer, and the rest. So we now say to people, well, what we need to do is get 70 to 80 per cent of people immunised, double jabbed, and we can start to open it up because the, as I found out yesterday through talking to a friend in the UK on air, even though they've got 30,000 cases a day, well, hospitalisations are way down, mortality rates are way, way down, so, things open up and it appears to my friend, who's now been in London for a few weeks, that life, for all intents and purposes, in London has returned to normal. That's what we're looking at here, obviously, as well.
ALISON McMILLAN:
That's right, Ray. We're looking- I don't know that we'll take quite the same approach as, as the UK took. I think that what we've seen from the Doherty advice on the modelling is that we take a slow and steady approach to reducing those restrictions we're now all familiar with, in order to ensure that we can not overburden our health system. It continued to, to deliver normal services and, of course, address the COVID cases as well. So, I think our approach will be slightly different to the UK, but that's what I think we're all looking forward to, is a life where we can do what we can see they're doing - restaurants, pubs, getting together with friends and family again.
RAY HADLEY:
So, when you say different, do you mean by that slower? Or that, you know, Boris just said, no, we, we got to 70 per cent, we're going to open up everything - Freedom Day they called it. You think that we'll take a, a process where we do things a little slower and go one by one through different items?
ALISON McMILLAN:
That, I think- that's certainly what we're saying with the advice from Doherty, and the advice I think that we would expect to see from the Australian Health Protection Principle Committee - measured, sensible, acknowledging that- and knowing the impacts that these restrictions are having on everyone across the country. So, we're not dismissing the impacts that the restrictions is having, but we need to do this in a measured way as our vaccine rates increase. So obviously, target one is 70 per cent double doses - we're using that language now - and then 80 per cent double dose will give us more.
RAY HADLEY:
I've been double dosed with AstraZeneca, as has my wife and at least two of my children have had the first dose and I think one might have had the second dose. But the hesitancy with AstraZeneca - and we can lay the blame at the feet of many people, I suppose - but the over 60s, where AstraZeneca is most suitable, I read a report this morning and yesterday, 600,000 Australians over 60 are waiting for the Pfizer, we think, instead of AstraZeneca. I mean, I've pleaded with those people that they're in more danger of getting COVID and dying, than waiting for Pfizer. So it's better to get the AstraZeneca now and get it done. Is that hesitancy a concern for you and for the Federal Government?
ALISON McMILLAN:
It is, Ray, and I think that the message you're saying is, is exactly right. The greater risk to you if you're over 60, as I am, is that catching or contracting COVID is much, much more of a risk to your health and well-being than, than the AstraZeneca vaccine is. So please make sure that you're using and accessing the most accurate information, and [indistinct] you could get that AstraZeneca vaccine today. So please, if you are over 60 and you haven't had AstraZeneca, please talk to your GP but do access that vaccine right now because it will give you, and your friends and family, the greatest protection from COVID.
RAY HADLEY:
I shared a story. One of my young co-workers who, when I got my second dose of AstraZeneca, he got his first dose - he's in his early 20s. He went down to the hub in Sydney earlier this week to get his second dose and he queued up - there was, you know, thousands of people queued up in an orderly fashion - and when they came to question him, he said they said, Pfizer? He said, no, no I'm having second AstraZeneca. They said, we'll come here and so, instead of waiting four hours, he was done in about four minutes.
ALISON McMILLAN:
Yes.
RAY HADLEY:
And that's the other bonus. You know, the AstraZeneca, because it seems to be unpopular with some, it means it's far more accessible and far easier obtained than, than Pfizer at the moment. So- and another reason why people should access it, because it's done and dusted and gone.
Just, you mentioned about accurate reporting. Now, I know it's a danger for you as someone in public service to be criticising people, but Anastasia Palaszczuk has now been slammed by even the Labor Party for blaming children's welfare as the reason she can't lay the plan for the state to reopen and she's mentioned this fact about the 12-year-olds, you know, and I guess you've heard it this morning on various news services.
But I mean, the simple fact of the matter is, it was an emotive speech on the floor of Parliament and I understand theatrics were involved in all of that, but it does us no good to suggest, as she suggested, that the children under 12 will be vulnerable. Even the Queensland Health advice tells us that children under 12 are not vulnerable and as I understand it, and I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, there is no vaccine anywhere in the world for children under 12 at the moment. Is that correct?
ALISON McMILLAN:
That's, that's absolutely correct, Ray. So, all- you know, let me just state the facts as they are. There is no vaccine licenced anywhere in the world for under 12s at this point in time. ATAGI, that group we've relied on so much for our advice say: based on their evidence, there is no need for under 12s to be vaccinated and again, the expertise of the Doherty Institute, so independent of Government or me or anybody else, is saying the same.
RAY HADLEY:
Sure.
ALISON McMILLAN:
So, I think- and I think the facts play out. Children are contracting COVID just like they contract lots of other respiratory diseases. But the hospitalisation rate is very low and the ICU rate is tiny. So yes, we still need to protect our children by doing all of those things we know are so important. But at this point in time, there is no vaccine and the advice, generally, at the moment is that there's no need to be vaccinated for the under 12s.
RAY HADLEY:
Yeah. I mean, even on the Queensland Health site, Professor, it says this. The question posed, are children and young people at more risk of infection via Delta. The Delta variant is a clearly more transmissible, virus than the original form of the virus or the UK Alpha variant. There's no evidence to suggest it affects children any differently or at a different level. There are reports in relation to all of this that children will not be impacted under the age of 12. There's no evidence that Delta variant causes more serious illness in children, specifically. Reassuringly there's data from the UK suggesting admission rates for children have not increased, despite emerging reports that admission to hospital has increased for young adults compared to previous variants. So- and these are unvaccinated young adults that are mentioned. So, the 12-year-olds, what was said by the Premier is obviously wrong and misleading, and it needs to be called out. Because, while she's an intelligent woman and she's a Premier of her state of this Commonwealth, being theatrical in Question Time in Parliament is not the place to be throwing things out ad lib, and without researching or knowing what you're talking about.
I mean, it just is- it does a great disservice to the people of Queensland who may cling to the fact that the Premier said this and therefore it must be true and I'm glad we've been able to put that to rest today. So, the message that you would push, as we all would push, is get vaccinated.
ALISON McMILLAN:
Get vaccinated. Access the vaccine available to you right now. That is- that will protect you, your family and your loved ones. There are many ways now in which you can access the vaccine through GPs, through hubs, through the vaccine clinics that are everywhere. Go to that, that website and it will help you find that.
And again, Ray, I think the important message is here, as we're all hearing, this is our pathway back out of, of these restrictions and we all need to play our part. We can't rely on others to do it for us; we all need to play our part.
RAY HADLEY:
Well, I'll give you a personal message that - and this is why I'm keen to get it unlocked. And I had my fourth grandchild presented to me on Tuesday by my eldest daughter, Laura. I haven't seen that baby and won't see that baby for quite some months, I'd imagine. I haven't seen my other three grandchildren, ages three and a half, two and a half and ten months for about 10 weeks now and I mean, apart from the fact that FaceTime plays a role in our lives and it's wonderful to be able to access that, I can't cuddle them, I can't kiss them, I can't nurse them. And the day that someone says to me that I can leave Sydney to go and see my children will be one of the happiest days of my life - and my grandchildren, obviously.
And that's why I want people to be vaccinated, because if we do that, we draw closer to all of us being reunited with our loved ones. I know holidays and all those other things will also flow. But just being with your children and your grandchildren should be enough to make people get vaccinated, surely to goodness.
ALISON McMILLAN:
Ray, it's, it's, it's very, it makes me very sad to hear your story. And of course your story, like many others of us across the country are, are missing and not seeing our loved ones. So, again, you know, this is the impact we're seeing on, on people, on, on everyday people as well across the system. And our way out, please, is get vaccinated because this is what will protect us all and lead us to a future where you can cuddle your grandchildren and see your, your, your family.
RAY HADLEY:
I don't want to overplay it, because there are people far worse than me, Professor, far worse than me. But it's just a personal observation that, you know, in my life, that would be perhaps one of the most important things. And I think about the last couple of years when that opportunity's been taken away from me and others. And as I say, I mean, I've dealt with people on this program trying to access dying relatives. A lady married to a gentleman for 55, 60 years, couldn't hold his hand in his late stages of life. And, and I mean, it's just horrible. It's horrible. And the way we get for that to be allowed and happening is by being- getting vaccinated - that's why I'm pushing it so hard.
I appreciate your expertise and your time. You look after yourself and thank you very much for talking to me.
ALISON McMILLAN:
Thank you.
RAY HADLEY:
Thank you.
ALISON McMILLAN:
Lovely to talk to you. Thank you.
RAY HADLEY:
Thank you, Professor. Professor Alison McMillan, Federal Government's Chief Nursing and Midwifery Officer. So, she knows a lot about it.
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