PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Sam Rae is the Aged Care Minister and my guest. Sam Rae, welcome.
SAM RAE, MINISTER FOR AGED CARE AND SENIORS: Hi, PK. Nice to be with you.
KARVELAS: New Home Care Packages were released over the weekend, but new figures, as you know, have revealed just 800 new beds in aged care facilities were delivered in that last financial year. That's against, I think, demand of more than 10,000. Do you accept that that's unacceptable?
RAE: It's not enough, PK. It's definitely not enough. Can we just stick on the weekend just for a second, though, for just a moment? Saturday, the beginning of the new Aged Care Act, incredibly important day for older people in our community and for their families. These are the people who've contributed so much to our communities, and they deserve the very best care. We know they weren't getting it. The Royal Commission, under Scott Morrison, uncovered those horrific stories of abuse and neglect. We now have a Statement of Rights that governs the care for older people, and we have our new Support at Home program to keep them in their homes for longer.
You're very right. We need to tackle the biggest public policy issue in this space though, and that is growing demand with an ageing population. Now, it takes five to seven years for a project to go from conception to getting on the ground, and because Morrison and the Liberals cut so much out of the aged care sector, it meant those projects weren't going ahead. We're now playing catch-up so that we can meet that demand of the future.
KARVELAS: Okay. There have been reports of providers increasing fees by as much as 40 per cent since the new Support at Home program started. Are you aware of this? Are you investigating?
RAE: Well, the Support at Home program started on Saturday. But prior to that, we were seeing some providers paying, or charging rather, as much as 30 to 40 per cent of home care recipients' packages - that's their care, the money that's there for their care - just in administration fees.
KARVELAS: But that's not- I'm just going to take you to my question. I understand that was an issue, but on this, in terms of the increase, are you getting reports?
RAE: I'm answering that question. So, what we've done is we've capped those administration fees, so they can't be loading up the administration costs onto the providers' packages. We've made it so that they now have to disclose all of their service fees to the public so there's transparency. We've had the Department issue pricing guidance, and from July next year, there'll be pricing caps in place. So, the work that we're doing, in conjunction with older people and providers, is to make sure that services are priced appropriately and that older people get the maximum amount of care they can within their care budget.
KARVELAS: And are you getting any of these complaints?
RAE: Well, we will see some changes in the pricing arrangements. As I said, we have capped the administration costs.
KARVELAS: That, and then the other cap doesn't come in till July next year.
RAE: The service cap, that's right.
KARVELAS: So, before your desk through the Department, are you getting reports, both anecdotally and officially, that this is going on? That there's been a spike in prices, that people are charging more now since the changes?
RAE: Again, what we're seeing is service prices changing to reflect an accurate and transparent pricing model. So rather than providers loading up their costs into the administration provisions, those are now capped. And so, what we're seeing is services being priced appropriately to make sure that people are being paid an accurate and fair wage for the services that they're delivering. But overall, because [Support] at Home provides bigger budgets for care where people need them and, as I said, the administration costs have been cut out, people will be able to stretch those budgets further and make sure that as many dollars as possible go directly to care.
KARVELAS: But I'm assuming you've said to the Department, watch this?
RAE: We're watching everything. Absolutely. Absolutely, PK.
KARVELAS: Well, good. On that specifically, on people being fleeced?
RAE: We are watching pricing very, very carefully. It's why we've put in place this strategy. We've issued that pricing guidance. That's good for consumers to understand what efficient pricing looks like when they are negotiating with providers. It's good for providers to understand the Government's expectations around pricing. And as I said, from July next year, we'll have the pricing caps in place.
KARVELAS: There's a couple of other things that's worth asking you about. I think there are around 400,000 Australians living with dementia. There are some reports, again, that people with dementia are being turned away for easier to manage residents because they're seen as being more difficult residents in care. There's a new rights-based act, as you mentioned. Is that enforceable to deal with people being turned away for having dementia?
RAE: We want every older person in this country, PK, to be able to access safe, dignified, and high-quality aged care. The Statement of Rights is critical to underpin -
KARVELAS: How will you police that to ensure that people with dementia, for instance, are not being turned away?
RAE: Well, for the first time in Australia's history, older people, including those with dementia, have their rights enshrined in the law. Now -
KARVELAS: But enforceability- I mean, there's lots of laws, right? Enforceability is the key thing. How do you do it?
RAE: We know that dementia is a growing problem in our community. And, again, because we've seen undersupply of appropriate care in place as a result of the Liberal cuts, the people that are suffering from dementia, or living with dementia, I should say, are also affected by this as much as the broader population of older people seeking care. We do need to have specific programs in place, and we do. We've got a Specialist Dementia Care Program that's rolling out across the country.
KARVELAS: Yeah, but in terms of being able to police this, because a lot of people are making complaints that this is the case, is that something you need to look at?
RAE: The best way to ensure that everybody gets the care they need is an efficient model for pricing the cost of that care. We made very significant investments in what's called the AN-ACC pricing, that's the national pricing for care in the residential aged care setting. And by better reflecting the costs of care, we incentivise providers to provide that high-quality care to the people that need it, including those with dementia.
KARVELAS: National Seniors Australia wants the Government to reconsider the co-payments that are attached to personal care services. This is things like showering, wound dressing - they're really concerned about that. I know Australian Unity has also backed that call. Is that something that the Government will consider?
RAE: So again, we're shifting back to Support at Home, which is great. This is the in-home care program that we launched on Saturday. Now-
KARVELAS: But it's the co-payment part that they're complaining about, not that it exists.
RAE: So, if we want to have a sustainable, high-quality program of in-home care, and that's what older people tell us they want, it needs to be done on a sustainable financial basis. And that's why we're asking those people who have the means to do so to make a co-contribution to some aspects of their care.
KARVELAS: So, you're not going to look at it again?
RAE: I'm looking at everything, PK. I'm not taking anything off the table.
KARVELAS: Because this is a particularly acute complaint. Are you reconsidering this element?
RAE: Well, again, the Government pays 100 per cent of the clinical care costs for every single-
KARVELAS: But all of that other care is really key. I mean, it's not- the clinical care, yes, that's the essential stuff that keeps someone alive, but showering and the dignity of life that goes with that is not some sort of superfluous extra.
RAE: Yeah, I agree. The clinical care is the bulk of the care that gets delivered for people, and the Government pays 100 per cent of that cost. The care that you're referring to is categorised as independence care, because it doesn't necessarily have to be delivered by a clinician. And under the independence care category, where the older person is able to make a co-contribution, they are being asked to do so. We'll be monitoring the impacts of this because I'm very focused on making sure that we get the best possible clinical outcomes for older people. And where I form a view that we're not achieving that ambition, we'll make whatever changes are necessary.
KARVELAS: Minister, thank you for joining us.
RAE: Thanks, PK.