TV interview with Minister Butler, Sunrise – 28 November 2025

NATALIE BARR, HOST: The Australian Human Rights Commission and several Muslim groups are pushing to remove religion as a motivation for terror attacks. The groups say current terror laws unfairly target Muslim communities and create a persistent association between Islam and terrorism. But the government has moved against that proposal, finding 13 of the last 16 terror attacks in this country were all religiously motivated, 12 of which were driven by Islamist violent extremism. Let's bring in Health Minister Mark Butler and Liberal Senator Jane Hume. Good morning to both of you. What's your take on this, Mark?
 
MARK BUTLER, MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGEING, MINISTER FOR DISABILITY AND THE NDIS: There's a review of our terror laws, the first review since 9-11, so pretty much 25 years ago, and that's a good thing. We need to make sure they're fit for purpose with the evolving threat situation. But I can tell your viewers, Nat, we're not in the interest of narrowing terrorism protections. We're in the interest of expanding them and making sure they're fit for purpose. Recently, we updated our terror laws, for example, to be able to go after foreign state actors. Iran's Revolutionary Guards have been found to be supporting terror acts here in Australia. Religion and religious hatred, tragically, is a big motivator of terror acts. This review is important, but we're in the business of expanding protections and keeping Australians as safe as possible.
 
BARR: Jane, the Muslim groups say it marginalises their faith by using religion as a definition. Do you agree with them?
 
BUTLER: Unfortunately, religion, sorry -
 
SENATOR JANE HUME: At the same time, Nat, though- sorry -
 
BARR: Sorry, Mark. Yes, Jane?
 
HUME: At the same time, Nat, though, Mark Burgess from ASIO has said that anti-Semitism is the number one priority for ASIO right now. And clearly, motive is what defines a terrorist act as opposed to any other crime. We'll be supporting the government in its push to make sure that religious motivation continues to be considered a motivation for terrorist act, particularly at a time of heightened alert as we're in now.
 
BARR: Okay, moving on. Economists are urging Jim Chalmers not to extend the energy bill rebates amid growing inflation, which was driven primarily by rising power prices. Mark, it's being labelled a bit of a dilemma between fighting inflation or the cost of living relief. You can't have both, can you? What do you think you should do?
 
BUTLER: We've been very careful to target our cost of living relief to obviously provide relief to households, but also that downward pressure on inflation. On 1 January, for example, we'll be cutting the price of medicines again. That's good for households, it's good for their health, but it's also good for inflation. The energy rebates are going to have to end at some point in time. They're reviewed from budget update to budget update, and we'll have more to say about that in due course. But I think everyone recognises they can't go on forever. They were put in place at a particular point in time, particularly after the invasion of Ukraine spiked energy prices right around the world.
 
But look, broadly, we've been really careful. Cost of living relief is important, has been for the last few years, as we've seen global inflation rage. But we've got to design it to keep inflation as low as possible.
 
BARR: So, Jane, do you support the energy rebates going? It sounds like the government is edging towards them being lifted.
 
HUME: Well, Nat, the two drivers of Australia's homegrown inflation, which has not been tamed as Jim Chalmers had hoped, rising government spending and rising energy prices. If you keep government spending going up to solve the energy price problems, well, you're just making the problem worse. It's like putting a Band-Aid on a bullet hole. We'd prefer to see the government tackle the problem at the source and deliver on its promise to bring energy prices down, ideally by $275, as was promised all those years ago. But instead, what we've seen is energy prices rise by around 40 per cent. In fact, Australian families are paying around $1,300 more than the government promised on their energy bills now. That's what the government should be focusing on to bring inflation down, that and reducing its spending, which is continuing to put inflationary pressures. That's making Australians poorer and bringing our living standards down.
 
BARR: So Jane, the Coalition wants the energy rebates gone?
 
HUME: We want to see the government deliver on its promise to not just tame inflation, but bring energy prices down as well.
 
BARR: Okay. Is that a yes? You want to lift the rebates?
 
HUME: Well, let's see what the government proposes, but I can't see how they can possibly do both. Keep increasing their spending and lower energy prices? It just doesn't seem to be happening.

BUTLER: The Coalition opposed the energy rebates in the first place, so it is hard to know what their position would be.
 
BARR: Yeah, so just clarifying both your positions, Jane, let’s start with you.
 
HUME: Well, how about you guys just deliver on your $275?
 
BARR: Yep. We'll start with you, Jane. Just clarifying your position, because people are getting their energy bills every quarter and they know how high they are. So, Jane, do you want to keep them?
 
HUME: Well, they've been artificially holding inflation back down.
 
BARR: Exactly. So get rid of them?
 
HUME: We can't allow the inflation genie to get away from us. Even Jim Chalmers has said that they were temporary and they're unsustainable, so let's see what the government proposes. But to be honest, our preference is to see inflation come down sustainably through hard fiscal work and reducing energy prices by getting rid of this mad, ideological approach to its renewables rollout.
 
BARR: Okay. And Mark, it sounds like the government's going to get rid of them. $5 billion you're spending on them.
 
BUTLER: We'll have more to say at the next budget update. They’re reviewed every budget update.
 
BARR: What do you reckon, Mark?
 
BUTLER: People have been clear, I think, from the start when we introduced them against the opposition of the Liberal Party at the time, that they weren't going to be there forever. They were a temporary measure. They will come to an end at some time, quite when that is, we'll have more to say about soon.
 
BARR: Okay. Sounds like they're on the chopping block. Finally, parliament is wrapping up for the year. MPs on both sides have been given a stern summer break message by their leaders, which couldn't be more different. Anthony Albanese has told Labor colleagues to work hard, keep engaging, be on the phone even if they're on holiday. Meanwhile, Deputy Opposition Leader Ted O'Brien urged the Coalition to take a break, saying it had been a very difficult year and his colleagues should stay out of the headlines. Mark, is Albo basically saying have a holiday but make sure you keep front and centre and keep working?
 
BUTLER: We've got a lot to do, Nat. Over the course of summer, I'll be opening 47 Urgent Care Clinics. We'll be cutting the price of medicines again on 1 January, rolling out a universal nurse and digital health service, 1800MEDICARE in January as well. We're going to be busy. We've got lots to deliver that we promised at the last election, but of course everyone's got to take a rest. Everyone's got to reconnect with their family, stay at home a little bit, hopefully get some time on the beach, watching the cricket, watching us beat the Poms. But we're going to be busy as a government, because we've got a lot to do.
 
BARR: Okay, Jane, how about you? Because it feels like different messages. Are you guys just going to put your feet up?
 
HUME: Oh, no way. The Opposition never sleeps. But I've worked out what this is Nat. This is a ruse from the Prime Minister. He's telling his colleagues to work really hard so he doesn't have to invite them to the wedding. That's what it is.
 
BARR: Oh, the wedding's happening.
 
HUME: It's so that he doesn't have to say -
 
BARR: Is the wedding happening?
 
HUME: You don't have to. You're too busy to come to the wedding, I know, because you're working really hard. But the good news is, Prime Minister, I'm free. I can come to the wedding if you would like me to be. I do a great speech, tears, laughter, I can throw flowers. I'm a great flower girl.
 
BARR: Really?
 
HUME: Fewer grenades, more flowers. What do you reckon? I can come.
 
BARR: Have you heard, Jane, is the wedding on?
 
HUME: Where's my bait? It's supposed to be by the end of the year, isn't it? That was the promise.
 
BARR: Mark, you seem to be smirking a little bit. Is the wedding on?
 
BUTLER: I don't know when the wedding's going to be. Everyone loves a wedding. What can I say? Everyone wants to be at every wedding.
 
BARR: Okay, we'll leave it there.
 
HUME: Not all your colleagues. They'll be working too hard.
 
BARR: Okay, thank you. We'll leave you there. See you next week. Work hard.
 
HUME: Thanks, Nat. Thanks, Mark.