NATALIE BARR, HOST: Well, business groups have slammed the government’s planned migration crackdown on working holidaymakers, with agriculture, hospitality and tourism sectors saying it will hurt the supply of essential workers in remote and regional Australia, and even drive up fruit and vegetable costs. Labor’s plan to slash the visa group by nearly 40,000 a year has even been met with some internal turmoil within the party’s ranks.
Let’s bring in Health Minister Mark Butler, and Deputy Opposition Leader Jane Hume. Good morning to both of you. Mark, so businesses are not happy here. Even some Labor MPs are telling the papers it won’t be popular. Have you consulted properly with regional communities about these cuts?
MARK BUTLER, MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGEING, MINISTER FOR DISABILITY AND THE NDIS: Tony Burke’s been working on the plan that he announced at the Press Club yesterday, Nat, for a considerable period of time. And we’re constantly engaging, particularly with business groups, who rely so heavily on migrant workers. It's not just those you talked about in your introduction. I know in the healthcare sector and aged care and disabilities, those services simply would not function properly without a strong flow of migrant workers, doctors, nurses and workers in those care sectors. So, yes, there’s constant engagement.
I think what these groups are talking about are what I think are some pretty reasonable controls on the number of backpackers, not who come necessarily, but who stay for two or three years. And look, we've had to do that to be able to focus our efforts and target the skilled workers that are in very high demand in sectors like construction, in healthcare, those doctors and nurses that I talked about, in agriculture, in resources and law enforcement. That really was the plan that Tony laid out yesterday, to get better balance in the system, a system that's given this country just so much, our migration system, and also to improve the compliance.
I think Australians recognise there's too much visa hopping, there's too many people overstaying their visas. It was a very comprehensive package that Tony outlined yesterday.
BARR: So Jane, when you've got the Housing Industry Association, the National Farmers' Federation the Australian Fresh Produce Alliance, the Tourism and Transport Forum, the Council of Small Business Organisations and the Business Council of Australia all coming out this morning and basically saying they're not happy to some degree with these plans and you want to cut too, what would you do?
SENATOR JANE HUME: Nat, we certainly wouldn't be cutting the desperately needed labour to regional Australia, particularly around harvest time, because Mark's right, we need more doctors and nurses and we need more construction workers, but if you can't feed Australians, well, what's the point? These workers are essential to making sure that our farmers and our agriculture sector can harvest the food that we need to feed everyday Australians, and that simply hasn't been considered under Labor's migration plan.
I mean, it's extraordinary that it's taken four and a half years for Tony Burke to realise that the migration- the immigration program has been fractured under Labor, that they brought in around half a million people in just one year alone. So when they pat themselves on the back and say, look, we're bringing the numbers down, it's from their own highs. That's what's been causing the problem. The pressure on our housing, on our infrastructure, on our healthcare system, on our roads has been caused by a program that has run out of control. But to be honest with you, whatever was announced yesterday was still underwhelming. Labor have set themselves targets on immigration, on inflation and on housing, and they've missed all of them every single year. I have no faith that Tony Burke is going to be able to deliver on the promises that he made yesterday.
BARR: Yeah, Mark, isn't that a good point? Two years ago, you missed your target by, what, 50,000? Last year, you missed it by 45,000 or so. We haven't even got the figures in. The forecast was 295,000, I think, in the NOM, and it comes out in December, I think, the figures. So what makes you even think that you’ll reach your target this year? Can you even make these figures?
BUTLER: The figure Jane talked about with a five in front of it, as she rightly knows -
BARR: Was COVID.
BUTLER: Was the figure after two years of border lockdowns. Australians and many others flooding back to Australia. Look, that was a high point but it was always going to happen.
BARR: But with the last two years, let’s talk about that.
BUTLER: They're down by almost a half. We've got those NOM figures.
BARR: But still well over your forecasts.
BUTLER: The net migration figures that came out yesterday see those figures with a two in front of them, from a 500,000 and something to a two-hundred and something in front of them. And our advice is the plan that Tony laid out yesterday will get us to the numbers we set out in the budget, which we think are the right balance. If you think there's pressure on business with the numbers we've put in our budget, try what's going to happen if and when Jane and Angus Taylor release their plan to achieve the numbers that they're aiming for.
The 130,000 figure that One Nation has put out would utterly trash sectors like the construction sector and workforce supply for areas like healthcare as well. You will not be able to find a doctor outside of the major cities. We think we've got the balance right. We think we've got the balance right. The advice we've got is the plan that Tony laid out yesterday. We're already under 300,000. We've got two-hundred and something thousand. We'll get us to those targets we put in the budget very clearly in May, two-hundred and forty -
BARR: But Mark, if you kicked out the 80 or so who are illegal, who’ve been declared illegal, they need to go. We can't seem to, why can't we knock on those doors and get those people out? If you kicked out the 80, imagine those figures.
BUTLER: Yeah, and Tony laid out a plan yesterday to improve compliance, to lift the number of staff working there, to lift the number of places where people are housed for a short period before they're put on planes. There's a significant package yesterday about improved integrity to stop people being able to hop from visa to visa and stay for extended periods of time. And for those people who are here without a visa, to lift the arrangements to get them out of the country. This is a very broad package that we announced yesterday and I think it's the right balance for the country.
BARR: Okay, final word, Jane.
HUME: You can't have it both ways, Mark. Yesterday, Tony Burke said that any lower number would crash the economy. But he also said in the same breath that he needed the legislative powers in order to make it lower and that the coalition weren't willing to help. You can't have it both ways. Which is it, are you going to crash the economy with lower numbers, which is what Australians are looking for, or are you simply waiting for the Coalition to assist you? And if you are, show us the legislation that would allow us to assist you because we're not going to do it on your word. You've broken your word too many times.
BARR: Okay, it's not being legislated. It's going to be pushed through in other ways. Thank you very much. We'll see you next week.