TV interview with Minister Butler, Sunrise - 15 May 2026

NATALIE BARR, HOST: A fairer, freer and better Australia. That's what opposition leader Angus Taylor has promised in his budget reply speech. One of the biggest headlines, a plan to give Aussie workers relief by tying income tax brackets to inflation. The move would put hundreds of dollars back in workers' pockets each year, but would cost more than $140 billion. That's the estimate within a decade. For more, let's bring in Health Minister Mark Butler and Senator Jane Hume Good morning to both of you. Jane, we're going to start with you. It sounds great to a lot of people, but how would the Coalition pay for this?
 
SENATOR JANE HUME: Nat, the tax-back guarantee means that more Australians will have more of their own money in their pocket. And the government doesn't benefit every time inflation goes up. Because right now, when inflation goes up and your wages go up and you move into a higher tax bracket, well, the government then gets a bigger slice. That's what the tax-back back guarantee will do make sure that it's individuals and families that benefit from their wage rises not the government. Now yes this does cost more over time but it will also help grow the economy because let's face it when taxes are lower you're encouraged to work that bit harder. Reward for effort is something that the Coalition believes fundamentally in. We want to see more people into work, more people taking on more jobs and keeping more of what they earn. That's exactly what the tax-back guarantee will do.
 
BARR: It was introduced years ago and abandoned in the 80s because it just cost too much. Do you really think that this is something the nation can sustain, Jane?
 
HUME: Well, what's the alternative? The alternative is that each and every year Australians get a little bit poorer because inflation and then wage rises get eaten up by taxes every time you move into a higher and higher tax bracket. In fact, we estimate that just in the last 12 months alone, bracket creep has cost every Australian, average Australians, around $2,000 out of their pay packet. Well, that's unsustainable. We want Australians to grow their wealth, become better off over time and get rewarded for the effort that they make.
 
BARR: Mark, would a lot of Aussie workers be nodding this morning?

MARK BUTLER, MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGEING, MINISTER FOR DISABILITY AND THE NDIS: You asked the alternative to Jane. The alternative is responsible funded tax cuts. They're happening on the 1st of July this year. They're happening on the 1st of July next year as well. They were opposed by Jane and Angus last year. They promised to repeal them. The interesting thing is Jane couldn't answer that question about how to fund them. These might be nice ideas but at the end of the day you have to pay for these things. Angus Taylor couldn't say last night how they would pay for this. Jane can't say this morning. Taylor couldn't say last night how they'd pay for this. Jane can't say this morning. Frankly, promises like this don't deserve serious attention until you front up and put the numbers on the table and show taxpayers how this will be paid for. We did that on Tuesday night. We laid out all our plans. We showed how some of the changes that we want to make, some of the benefits we want to introduce, will be paid for. And that includes tax cuts this year, tax cuts next year, that the Coalition frankly said they'd tear up.
 
BARR: Yeah, Jane, it's still not clear how you can find an extra $12 billion a year.
 
HUME: Mark, you are raising taxes. You're raising taxes. Nat, what I can tell you is that oppositions don't present budget books every budget night the way a government will do. We'll present our costings prior to the election and Australians will see very clearly exactly how it is that a Coalition will manage a budget responsibly. In the meantime, I know exactly how Mark is going to fund his very small, meagre tax cuts and he's going to do it by raising taxes. Raising taxes on negative gearing, raising taxes on capital gains tax, and that's going to deny future generations, younger Australians, the same opportunities that older Australians have right now.
 
BARR: Okay, Mark, maybe you can answer this question that we keep getting on the text line this week. Your whole pitch this week was basically getting younger people into houses, which, you know, who doesn't want that? Could you explain how, though? Because they're not going to be able to save more. Their rents are roughly staying the same. They're not going to be able to invest in shares anymore because they're going to actually be taxed more from their share investments. House prices won't fall much by your own admission, maybe 2 per cent. Sydney house prices have fallen, I think, 1.4 per cent this year. So how will your plan be able to get more young people to save for a deposit and get into houses sooner?
 
BUTLER: We're building more houses. That's been a big part of our plan. We've got a 5 per cent deposit scheme, which means that young people can buy into a now much more expensive housing market with only a 5 per cent deposit and no mortgage insurance.
 
BARR: Which, yeah that was already in for a year, yeah.
 
BUTLER: But it takes years off their savings. But that just hasn't shifted the dial enough. To Jane's point, parents and grandparents aren't coming to me and about the fact that their kids can't buy their second or third or fourth house. They're saying they can't buy their first house because they end up at these auctions bidding against investors who have the benefit of a tax break in their pockets when they're bidding. We just want to give young people an even break at those auctions, building on the more supply, the lower deposits they have to save -
 
HUME: You're doing the exact opposite Mark.
 
BUTLER: And last night again and Jane again this morning, pretending that the problem here is young people not being able to buy their second, third, or fourth house. We know the problem is they can't buy their first house. The great Australian dream of home ownership is slipping away from young Australians and we're not willing to sit by and let that continue to happen.
 
BARR: And that's what we're talking about. How is this going to get people into their first home? Jane, could you respond?
 
HUME: Yes, Yes, Mark, your own budget papers say that the taxes that you're going to impose on all Australians, including younger Australians, is actually going to decrease the number of houses that are being built. You're making it harder for young Australians to get into the housing market and build wealth. Because let's face it, a lot of these young Australians are saving for their first house by putting money into shares or ETFs. That's now going to be taxed even more. At the same time, your own budget papers say that you're going to push rents up. So it means that young Australians have more trouble saving for a house and they're paying higher rents at the same time. That's not intergenerational fairness. That's intergenerational fraud.
 
BARR: And, Mark, what about, you can still negatively gear new builds which are traditionally on the outskirts of town? Lots of young families, often buying their own first home, won't they be competing with the investors that are allowed to negatively gear on the outskirts of town, the new builds?
 
BUTLER: New builds are happening right across the country. They're happening in inner city areas where there's knockdowns and subdivisions. That will be eligible for negative gearing, as you know.
 
BARR: But mostly new subdivisions on the outskirts of town, on the outskirts of town are young families and they're going to be competing with investors.
 
BUTLER: Sure. We want to see investors still in the market. They're an important part of our housing market. They provide rental property to a whole bunch of Australians. That's important. But we also want young people to have an even break, particularly with that investment in the existing housing stock that's just been churning for year after year after year. It's also, as Jane knows, those budget papers show very clearly that as a package, these changes are going to mean about 75,000 additional first home buyers into the market. That'll reverse the decline we've seen over the last 10 years, finally doing something to turn this thing around.
 
BARR: Okay. Thank you very much. Both had your sides to say. We'll see you next week.