Radio interview with Minister Butler, ABC Radio – 25 July 2025

JULES SCHILLER, CO-HOST: We're also joined by Mark Butler, the Federal Health Minister. Good morning to you, Mark.
 
MARK BUTLER, MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGEING, MINISTER FOR DISABILITY AND THE NDIS: Good morning.
 
SCHILLER: It's hard hearing Kym, and he gets to work early. The job means a lot to him. You know, 1,400 to 1,600 employees are at Bedford. They're the second biggest disability employer in the country. What answers can you give them today?
 
BUTLER: And by far the biggest here in South Australia, and it’s been an icon for our state for eight decades. I'm desperately worried about Kym and the hundreds and hundreds of his fellow workers for whom this is more than a job. This is a real opportunity to connect with people, as Kym's just been talking about. I'm really worried at the financial position that Bedford has got itself into. They first met with me last month. We've been engaging with them pretty constantly over the last several weeks, engaging also with the state government who, to their credit, has stepped into this space and tried to see whether they could find a way forward as well. I've been talking directly to the Treasurer as recently as yesterday. We've also been speaking over the last 24 hours or so to the company that would be likely to be appointed the administrator just to try and understand exactly the depth of the financial trouble that Bedford is in. We put in place a structural adjustment grant for the way in which Bedford would be able to move to some of the new supported employment arrangements. But it appears pretty clear to me that the depth of their financial difficulty goes well beyond that.
 
SONYA FELDHOFF, CO-HOST: What can you tell us about that? I mean, we were told by Janet Miller that if they got this cash injection of some millions, not necessarily tens of millions, but millions, that they would then have a sustainable future. Is that your understanding?
 
BUTLER: I'm not clear about that. I'm not clear that there wouldn't be the need for more money beyond the several weeks that that might give to them. That's really the purpose of administration. South Australia is familiar with that. That's what we're going through right now with Whyalla. I'm going through it with the Healthscope hospitals across the country. Really, I mean, taxpayer funds are not generally put into a failing organisation to put money to the management that has got the company or the organisation to that position. That's the job of an administrator.
 
FELDHOFF: Do you have concerns about the current management?
 
BUTLER: I've got concerns about the financial position of Bedford, and my responsibility is to ensure that any taxpayer funds that are committed to one of the many, many organisations in this disability scheme are going to be used purposefully. That's really what we've all been trying to get our heads around. State government, the banks that have a lot of money on the line as well, the federal government, we understand very, very acutely the unique nature of this organisation. It's not just some other business that's got itself into difficulty. This is a South Australian icon that underpins hundreds and hundreds of lifestyles of people like Kym.
 
SCHILLER: Can I ask just about the NDIS and the support it gives Bedford? Because Janet Miller seemed to say that that was one of the problems the  that they are facing. We know that the budgets of the NDIS are blowing out. You're trying to rein it in.

This is what the CEO had to say about the NDIS. This was in an InDaily article a few months ago. He said, “there's a siloed approach to the way the NDIS participants are moved. Some are being supported under a program of supported appointments. Others provide a disability support through other programs but don't have an NDIS plan.” So he says, “this way of thinking is not best for Bedford. They need to take a more holistic approach for it to work.” Is the NDIS designed for a place like Bedford? Is that one of the problems?
 
BUTLER: I think it is. Bedford receives tens of millions of dollars every year from the NDIS to support people who are not only in the employment arrangement, but in supported accommodation and areas like that as well. Now, there are arguments that other major organisations are making about the precise sort of nature of funding arrangements, particularly for some of these big organisations that support people with quite complex needs. But that's not what we're talking about here in relation to Bedford. There are many of those organisations, they are not in the depth of financial difficulty that Bedford is in right now.
 
We've got a responsibility as the Commonwealth, I know the Premier and the Treasurer do as leaders of the state government to step through this and see what we can do responsibly to support such an important organisation. Their lenders will be doing the same. I'm glad that they've got someone independent looking at their books now. An administrator who would be able to provide some more independent advice about if money is put on the table, what does it mean? Is it an extension of a few weeks which will need more money again? Or is there a genuine viable plan forward that will continue to underpin the lives of people like Kym?
 
FELDHOFF: You said you've been speaking to Bedford for, I think, about the last month earlier in this discussion.
 
BUTLER: I first met with them in June and our officials, my office has been talking with them and particularly with the state government that has taken a lot of the lead in these discussions with the organisation on a constant basis.
 
FELDHOFF: Were you aware of problems before that first meeting though?
 
BUTLER: No, I wasn't.
 
FELDHOFF: And so this has all come to a head in the last month. Does that suggest, are you clear whether this is a strategy issue, a funding issue? Are you any clearer to knowing what has caused them to get into the depths of these financial problems?
 
BUTLER: I think it's a mix of all of the above, frankly. I really do. Bedford's position is quite unique right now. There are other major disability organisations that make the same argument about the nature of NDIS funding. They're not in the position that Bedford finds itself in right now. I think the leadership has been honest about some of the plans they had to shift to a different financial footing, not really coming off in the way that they'd hoped. Bedford has got itself into a very, very difficult situation. I think we're all doing all that we can to talk with them about a way in which we responsibly can help them go forward because we understand the importance of this organisation to our state.
 
SCHILLER: Would it be fair to suggest that because of this ambitious strategy they've put in place that doesn't seem to be sustainable, you would be more comfortable with this company moving into voluntary administration so you have a third party like a KordaMentha, say, in Whyalla to look at the books and report back to you saying this is the actual position we're in. It seems like that's what you're saying?
 
BUTLER: That is the usual way things happen. It's not just Whyalla, but Healthscope Hospitals, the second largest hospital operator, has moved into that sort of an arrangement. There is an independent set of eyes looking at the books, charting a path forward. I said then that we were not going to bail out private hospitals that were failing financially. The proper process was to move into administration and then there would be an independent path charted forward.
 
The difficulty is that Bedford doesn't have much wiggle room here. That would be the usual approach. Healthscope had funds in the bank that would enable them to continue operating while that was happening. It doesn't appear to me that Bedford does have that. We are really up against it right now. And I think that's the plea that the chair has made on your show this morning. They've been making to us over the last couple of days in particular, I'm sure they've made to the Premier and the Treasurer. But this is quite a difficult position because it is not usual for government to hand money over to a failing business or organisation without some independent confidence that that money is going to be well utilised and get the show back on track.
 
FELDHOFF: So Janet Miller says they need money today, basically, to prevent them going into administration on Sunday. The state government seems to be willing to put money in. They've sort of suggested that. The Premier has said that. Can you rule out that you're giving them money today to prevent administration?
 
BUTLER: We'll continue to have discussions. We were having them right through yesterday with the organisation, with the state, with the company that is likely to be appointed administrator, who thankfully is already starting to get a look at the books so we can get some third-party analysis of what's happening and whether the money that Bedford is asking for would be used productively. But again, I can't overstate the degree of worry that I have for the 1,400 people that are supported by Bedford. We are putting a lot of energy into this and we'll continue to do that over the course of today. I know the Premier's meeting with the leadership. People in my office and my department, the NDIA, are working this over the course of the day.
 
SCHILLER: Before you leave us, when a company goes into involuntary administration because you think the financial model might not necessarily be sustainable, so you don't want to throw money, after money, after money that might not go anywhere. In that process, would you normally expect, say, the chair or the CEO to stand aside that has got you to this point?
 
BUTLER: Oh, that's really a matter for them. That's really a matter for the leadership, the board. The board have responsibilities, whether they're of a big sort of private company like Healthscope, for example. Healthscope's kept the existing CEO in place to see the operation through to ensure the hospitals are still operating, still seeing the patients. That's a case-by-case position, Jules, rather than something that we have a blanket rule about.
 
SCHILLER: Do you see a future of Bedford?
 
BUTLER: I desperately want a future for Bedford.
 
SCHILLER: But you can't guarantee it?
 
BUTLER: This has served our state so well for eight decades. You heard in Kym's interview there just what it means for him. He's just one of 1,400 people who've been supported there and they've been doing it all of our lives and well before that as well.
 
SCHILLER: Mark Butler, thank you for coming in, joining us in the studio. Mark Butler is the Federal Health Minister.