Radio interview with Minister Butler, ABC News Breakfast – 25 July 2025

JAMES GLENDAY, HOST: Alright, it's been a big week in Canberra with Federal Parliament returning for the first sitting week of the 48th Parliament. There's also a fair bit going on as the Albanese Government starts implementing its agenda. And for more on this, the Minister for Health, Ageing and the NDIS, Mark Butler, joins us from Adelaide. Mark, welcome back to News Breakfast.
 
MARK BUTLER, MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGEING, MINISTER FOR DISABILITY AND THE NDIS: Thank you, James.
 
GLENDAY: Now, I just want to take you to, we'll get to some areas in your portfolio in a moment, but the union movement this morning has said that poor management is responsible for worker burnout and is a drag on productivity. Do you agree with them?
 
BUTLER: I think there's going to be a lot of debate before this really landmark roundtable that the Treasurer is pulling together in August. I'm not going to comment on all of it. II think the productivity challenge, it's fair to say, runs right through the economy, the care economy, the traditional manufacturing economy. I get that unions don't want the focus just to be on the workers. They want to make sure that workers continue to be paid properly. That's part of why we introduced the legislation we introduced to protect penalty rates this week. Also, the productivity of companies obviously goes to the quality of management. But I think this is going to be a comprehensive discussion. There'll be a lot of debate before the actual get-together in Canberra in late August, and I'm not going to respond to every one of those pieces.
 
GLENDAY: I can see the smile on your face. The union's Sally McManus was along just about an hour or so ago. She was pretty clear, saying that if managers were better at their jobs, Australia would be more productive. Does she have a point at all?
 
BUTLER: Obviously there's room for improvement in every part of the economy. I think people are going to bring goodwill and a recognition it’s not about just talking about others, it’s reflecting on ourselves as well. That’s certainly the sort of discussion we’re having in the parts of the economy I'm responsible for. We'll be having our own productivity roundtable for health and for social care in the lead-in to the one being put together by the Treasurer, Jim Chalmers. But I want people to be generous about this and reflect that all of us can do better to lift the productivity of our economy, because we know that directly feeds into our prosperity.
 
GLENDAY: Yes, everyone's trying to frame it in conditions that might be favourable for them in this discussion. We'll leave that there. I want to take you overseas. There are reports this morning that Washington and Israel are pulling back from Gaza peace talks, claiming that Hamas is not acting in good faith. What's your reaction to this?
 
BUTLER: This is again, distressing, disappointing, the position in Gaza. The fact that hostages remain in place there, the terrible humanitarian position for the people of Gaza itself is just unsustainable. The parties have to get back to the table and end this conflict. We lifted our level of concern along with so many other like-minded countries like the UK and others earlier this week. This has to end. The suffering has to end. The hostages have to be returned. Innocent civilians in Gaza have to stop being subject to the conditions that they're subject to right now.
 
GLENDAY: If the suffering doesn't end and these horrendous pictures of people that look to be starving and the like continue to come out of there, is the Australian Government going to do more? Is it going to take more concrete action rather than just expressing concern through letters and motions and things like that?
 
BUTLER: I'll leave that to the Foreign Minister. These are delicate situations. We've made a very clear statement with partner countries over the last several days, we want the parties to get back to the table and end this conflict.
 
GLENDAY: Just to an area in your portfolio now, I mean, private healthcare giant Ramsay is shutting 17 psychology clinics. This was an area that was already under strain due to a lack of professionals. What sort of pressure is this going to put on the public health system in particular?
 
BUTLER: We've talked to Ramsay. They've said to us it wasn't a lack of psychologists that caused them to take the decision they took yesterday. We weren't aware of it before it was reported in the media. About half of the work that they were doing out of those clinics was being conducted virtually.  This is happening across the system of psychiatry and psychology. More and more people are conducting their psychology sessions online rather than face to face. That, understandably, is placing some real financial pressure on traditional bricks-and-mortar models. Ramsay and some others as well are moving to quite different models of care. That's what's going to happen with these 17 clinics. They'll still be available to support all of the patients, as I understand it, who have been receiving care from those clinics. But it will be a different model. But we know there's more demand for mental health. That's why we're investing in training more psychologists, because we don't have enough in this country, and expanding other services as well that are available free of charge to Australians who need help.
 
GLENDAY: In your home state of South Australia, just before I let you go, disability services provider Bedford is entering voluntary administration. We're already hearing from South Australia that there are going to be calls for federal government money. First of all, what sort of effect is it going to take, and is this something you're looking to intervene in?
 
BUTLER: As a South Australian particularly, but also as the Minister for Disability, I'm deeply worried about this. This is an icon of South Australia that has supported so many thousands of people with a disability, not just giving them a job, but a connection to society and to friendships. I was hearing from one of those gentlemen this morning in another interview, Kym, for whom this has just been a godsend, a job at Bedford. I'm deeply worried about the position of the 1,400 people supported by this organisation. We've been engaging with them very closely over recent weeks. They've got themselves into a terrible financial position. There's nothing more I can say than that.
 
But we are working very closely with them, with the company they've appointed, potentially as an administrator, and importantly as well, very closely with the South Australian Government that obviously understands deeply how important this organisation is for our state.
 
GLENDAY: I don't want to read too much in between the lines, so I'm going to just ask very specifically; it does sound as though federal intervention here is on the cards, at least in a temporary way?
 
BUTLER: We've been talking to them. It's not usual for the federal government to give money to an organisation that is failing financially before it goes into administration. I think you'd understand that, James. It's not clear to us what the future plan that Bedford management has. Obviously, that is the management that's got the organisation into this place, into this situation in the first place. We have to be careful about what we do, and whatever we do, we do responsibly. But we want to work closely with the state government, with lenders and obviously with Bedford management as well over the next couple of days.
 
GLENDAY: Alright, we'll stay tuned to that. Health Minister Mark Butler, thank you so much for your time from Adelaide this morning.
 
BUTLER: Thanks, James.