SCOTT LEVI, HOST: The Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, the PBS, is an Australian government program that subsidises the cost of prescription medicines for citizens and permanent residents and eligible visitors. It’s designed to ensure Australians have access to safe necessary medications at an affordable price by having the government cover a large portion of the retail cost, according to the online government site. The cost of PBS medicines has been at $25 while concession card holders continue to pay no more than $7.70 per script alongside an expanded range of medicines available under the PBS. But of course, new ones are always coming on. And we’ve got an example of one local woman who’s worried about her medicine being taken off the PBS. Some of the constituents may not be aware that Emma McBride, the MP for Dobell, is a qualified pharmacist which you would surmise is a prescription for a lot of knowledge in this area. Good morning.
ASSISTANT MINISTER EMMA MCBRIDE: Good morning, Scott. Good to be with you.
LEVI: Yeah, what type of drugs are we talking about?
MCBRIDE: So, Scott, the pharmaceutical scheme is one of the largest investments of the Commonwealth government in people’s health and wellbeing. There are about 900 drugs now listed on the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, and our government has added or amended more than 463. So, new or amended listings to the PBS, because as technology changes and medications improve, we want to make sure that Australians have access to them. The most common drug though still prescribed under the PBS, Scott, are statins, most commonly used for high cholesterol. And what we wanted to make sure was that all Australians could access medicines affordably. When we came to government, the cost of general prescriptions had risen to $42.50, and we made the biggest cut ever to the co-payment down to $30, saving Australians about $27 million each month, and we’ve now capped that at $25, the lowest price that PBS co-payments have been since I was working in community pharmacy back in 2004.
LEVI: What does that mean for the people in your electorate? I believe you’ve been able to crunch the numbers when it comes to savings, for example, in Dobell.
MCBRIDE: This is really significant savings for local people. Since we've introduced this cap and the freeze on concession scripts, it's been a saving of about $16.6 million in total. About 3.1 million cheaper prescriptions have been filled. And I got an email from a resident, Diane in Norville, she’s an aged pensioner and said to me that this really helps when you're on a pension. And it does, Scott, because that cap at $7.70 means that people don't have to delay or avoid filling scripts. We'd heard from the ABS that about a million Australians had been forced to delay or avoid filling a prescription because of cost. And I'd heard of people that were taking their medication every second day or buying pill splitters to be able to stretch out their prescription.
LEVI: As a pharmacist, what does that mean from a medical point of view?
MCBRIDE: We don't want people being forced to have to delay taking medications or avoid filling prescriptions, particularly when they're living with chronic complex conditions like diabetes or high blood pressure. So it was really concerning to me, which is why I was such a strong advocate for the reduction and the cap on the cost of PBS prescriptions. And importantly for aged pensioners, Scott, we've also reduced the number of scripts per year that they have to fill before they reach the safety net. The safety net is when an aged pensioner or concession card holder then has prescriptions for free. And that's now been reduced by 25 per cent, or approximately they'll need to fill 36 scripts a year in order to reach that safety net.
So really big investments in medications, in people's wellbeing, and also, Scott, importantly, reducing the pressure on our emergency departments and our local hospitals.
LEVI: We're speaking with the Member for Dobell, Emma McBride, a former pharmacist. Stark contrast in America, where big pharma lobbied the president to stop Australia subsidising life-saving medications, as reported in all of our major papers like the Sydney Morning Herald. Is that concerning? And that is a very powerful lobby group. Is this bipartisan to make sure that the PBS stays? Because it is a bit of a cornerstone of our system, isn't it?
MCBRIDE: It is. The Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme has been running for more than 75 years in Australia. And it is, as you said, a cornerstone of our health system in Australia, along with bulk billing and proper funding to our public hospitals. And I'll give you an example, Scott, for your listeners. There's a medication that was recently listed, Carvykti. It was listed just a month ago, and it's an innovative therapy for adults with multiple myeloma, a type of blood cancer. Australians can now access that medication, eligible Australians, for free, instead of paying around $200,000. And this is the difference that a PBS makes. And this will help more than 14,000 Australians living with multiple myeloma. And it's access like this that matters, which is why our government is so committed to the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme and why in my role I've been so determined to see the cost of PBS prescriptions capped, and new medicines being listed to the PBS.
LEVI: You must be heartened when the Prime Minister and the Coalition flatly refused to negotiate away the PBS stating the subsidy program remains not on the table, non-negotiable. I mean, that's good that all in Parliament stood up to that. Do you agree?
MCBRIDE: Oh Scott, it is absolutely vital. As a pharmacist and a local MP, I don't want to see people avoiding or delaying filling prescriptions because of cost and I don't want to see the kinds of costs that people pay in the US for medications. The example I just gave, more than $200,000. There's another recent example of a medication that's been listed for people with severe uncontrolled asthma. Without the PBS subsidy, this medication might cost patients up to $1600 per injection every four weeks. Under the PBS, $7.70 if you're an aged pensioner or $25 if you're a general patient. So this is really important investment in the health and wellbeing of all Australians, particularly those who can least afford it.
LEVI: This is an interesting one and this is in the public domain. Kelly Anderson, who lives at Umina, made a plea to her local member, Dr Gordon Reid, your colleague. She was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in 2023. Her neurologist said the good news is that a new drug called Kesimpta, K-E-S-I-M-P-T-A, could help halt the progression of the condition. It's well tried, and that's often a good thing in Australia, isn't it? We're quite conservative when it comes to new drugs. We make sure that the rest of the world tries them out first in some cases, and it's being very effective in halting the spread of her MS. But she said online the government is considering removing this medication from the PBS. If Kesimpta is not covered by PBS, a monthly dose could cost thousands of dollars a month. How- and then of course if she does start to develop the symptoms, the cost to the NDIS for someone with severe disability would probably outweigh the savings for making people pay for the Kesimpta, if you know what I mean. How is it considered? Who makes the call on that?
MCBRIDE: As you mentioned, we have a very robust and high-quality system of first registering medications. So the Therapeutic Goods Administration is the body, the independent agency that decides which medicines can be registered to be prescribed in Australia, the equivalent of the American FDA. And then we have the PBAC, the Pharmaceutical Benefits Advisory Committee, an independent expert body that makes decisions about which medication should be listed on the PBS. And for your listeners, Scott, PBAC are the ones that then negotiate with sponsor companies, pharmaceutical companies, to get the best price for Australians, because we're negotiating as a whole country to be able to get the best price for medicines to be listed affordably. So it makes medicines cheaper for people in terms of their co-payment being capped at $7.70, but it also means that the government is buying at a very good price to be able to make sure that we can invest in more PBS medicines and list more medications affordably for Australians.
LEVI: Can local MPs give information to that group? Obviously they're working independently and doing what they see is medically and scientifically right. But for example, if a lot of people were taking Kesimpta to stop the progression of their MS symptoms, can you make delegations? I assume that's what Dr Gordon Reid would be doing after this has come to light.
MCBRIDE: Importantly, Scott, there is provisions for people with their own personal experience, as well as clinicians, researchers. We know how important it is to hear from Australians and to hear from their own lived experience. So yes, individuals, MPs can make- can advocate to make sure that we're making available medications as technology changes and treatments improve affordably available on the PBS. So yes, it’s really important to hear from people for their own experience of their treatment, of the options for their care, to make sure that the PBS maintains that it's up to date and medicines are listed as they're needed.
LEVI: Are you able to give people some help in this regard? I mean, your colleagues or people making the decisions? Because I don't think there'd be many with your qualification in the Houses of Parliament.
MCBRIDE: Scott, I was elected now 10 years ago, and I'm still the only pharmacist in either the House of Representatives or the Senate. And I do take that very seriously. My responsibilities as a pharmacist and as a local MP and as Assistant Minister in our government, that medicines continue to be listed. And as I mentioned, we’ve had since July 2022 463 new or amended listings on the PBS. And what makes such a big difference is the affordability. And to think that now prescriptions cost the same, general prescriptions as when I worked in community pharmacy in 2004, just shows the big investment that our government has made in listing new medications on the PBS and importantly making sure they're affordable for local people.
LEVI: And you're not going to bow to the American pharmacies, pharmaceutical companies getting angry about it?
MCBRIDE: Oh, absolutely not, Scott. The PBS is absolutely vital to our health system. It is a cornerstone of healthcare in Australia. And as Minister Butler has said, and the Prime Minister has said, it is not negotiable. It is off the table.
LEVI: All right. Thanks for joining us.
MCBRIDE: Good to be with you, Scott.
LEVI: The Member for Dobell there, Emma McBride.