PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Now, staying in New South Wales, as we've been saying, residents in eight local district areas across the Hunter and the Upper Hunter regions have spent their first night under lockdown, and that's, of course, because of cases that were found there. The Government making a decision to expand the lockdown areas. In that case, it'll be just a week, but of course, we'll see after that. We're going to be joined in a moment by the Regional Health Minister. In fact, I think he's with us now. Dr David Gillespie, welcome.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Good afternoon, Patricia. Pleased to be back again.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Two of New South Wales' 291 new COVID cases today are in the Newcastle region, taking the total active cases in that region now to seven. How disappointed are you that this has spread to the regions?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Look, I'm disappointed when it spreads anywhere new. The procedures in place to limit its spread have been pretty robust, but that just reflects the nature of the Delta virus, Delta COVID virus. It's a really easily transmissible virus.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Okay, but yesterday there were three cases in Central Coast schools as well. Are you satisfied that there are adequate resources to deal with these cases in these regions?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Look, the response by New South Wales, as you know, has been exemplary and the fact that they've kept a quite a significant outbreak at a flat lining situation, rather than a rapidly exponentially increasing outbreak, is quite a testament to the testing, tracing, isolating, and quarantining. It's a really difficult situation no matter where you are, whatever state you're in, and the sooner we can get mass vaccination completed, the better off we will all be.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Would a ring of steel- I mean, it's just a language term, but a really tough border around the metropolitan area, as infectious disease specialists and epidemiologists have called for, have prevented this?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Look, it's always a relative judgement. There's plenty of opinions floating around. We've got lots of eminent people and also lots of recently trained benchtop epidemiologist giving their two bob's worth. Look, what I tend to do in my medical careers, I followed the advice of the experts, and the experts in New South Wales have got a good track record and I support their decisions.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Okay. Newcastle's Lord Mayor spoke to me and says the state's decision to redirect Pfizer doses to Year 12 students in Sydney has made them sitting ducks. What do you think?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Look, I think not necessarily. There have been other vaccination avenues for people in these couple of days where it's been changed, like all the general practices, any of the pharmacies that have it, the Commonwealth vaccination clinics. And there is also - still in the state jurisdictional system - there are still plenty of AstraZeneca available. But the Commonwealth system has continued throughout. We haven't diverted any. And in fact, the Prime Minister announced yesterday that they've brought forward supplies from the extra Pfizer that is coming in; 182,000 doses are directed back into those areas that they were diverted from. So you're talking about a several-day hiccup. And as I said, the rest of the vaccination program that the Commonwealth's been running has been going full steam.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Okay, but you're the Regional Health Minister, do you really think it was the right decision to relocate vaccines from regional New South Wales?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Well, look, it's- again, there's no black and white answer that. It's a decision-
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
[Interrupts] No. So what's your view? Do you think it's unfair to regional people?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, I was surprised, but I can appreciate their logic. And as I said, the Commonwealth, that wasn't a decision I or Greg Hunt, or the Prime Minister made here in Canberra, or any of the health officers. The way it works is there is a state, Commonwealth, jurisdictional problem, well, not problem, delineation and they made that decision. I mean, could you imagine-
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
[Interrupts] Would you have made a different decision?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Look, I don't want to second-guess them. I can follow their logic. I would have preferred it to just keep on going the way it is. There's pros and cons both ways. But can you imagine, now that they've decided they have a flexible system for trials and for the HSC and having them at home, that is a good additional solution. Getting more vaccines into the epidemic area, the central area in Sydney, is a good idea. Everything has a pro and a con…
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Sure.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
…but I imagine they were thinking, could this be a series of super spreader events, having a lot of young people in a big examination room and not being vaccinated? The vaccination pros-
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
[Talks over] Sure, but doesn't it demonstrate a sort of city bias, really, that regional areas were asked to do the heavy lifting here?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
No. Look, I don't think it's a bias. It's a bias towards where the epidemic was raging in southwest Sydney. I mean, that's-
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
[Talks over] Well, the epidemic's in their area too, now. This is the problem.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
But look, it's at a very early stage where it's going, you know, full-on, as I mentioned, in that area. So look, their decision, they've got to stand by it. The Commonwealth has done our bit, and we have stumped up and brought forward supplies that will be on the ground in those areas from 9 August. And it's great that- in fact, in the regional areas, they have got some of the highest rates of vaccination, even on the North Coast where I'm from. And I have, in my own electorate, some of my areas around Dungog and the Hunter are in my beautiful electorate, and I feel sorry, but I understand the logic that we have to try and nip this in the bud early.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
But ultimately, yes, New South Wales made the decision about the redirection. They only made the decision, though, because the preferred vaccine for this cohort is not available at high numbers in this country because your government hasn't ordered enough of it.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Look, I would dispute that. The facts are always different from opinion. There's 280 million doses that have been ordered by the Federal Commonwealth Government.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
[Talks over] That's not here yet. That's the problem.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
I know. The reason they're not here yet, PK, is because all the production in America has never been available for us to purchase. Likewise, production in Europe, there's 370 million people there that were clamouring for vaccines. We were a victim of our own success. There is a moral imperative when an epidemic is raging in Europe. That's why AstraZeneca was blocked from sending us 3.5 million doses, because the EU thought it was more pressing that they kept the vaccines in their country. So, look, it is a difficult situation around the world, but in Australia, we have done a huge ramp up since we have got access to them. We have negotiated- as I said, 280 million doses have been future purchased, months ago, for a population of 25 million. So if one vaccine fell over, the strategy was to have another and another supplier so we are not putting all the responsibility on one vaccine and one supplier. It's a sound principle. And as I said, when those vaccine companies saw our minuscule rate compared to the rest of the world, they said; well look, seriously guys, there's bigger pressures, so we'll deliver it when we can. And they're true to their word. They're turning up with it, we've got another 4 million ahead of time, and we have ramped up. Like, two days ago, 221,000 doses delivered in 24 hours. Back in February when it started, there were 34,000 in a month. And we are now up to 1.4 million doses being injected into willing arms around the country per week, so I am encouraged. When Moderna turns up, that is another huge distribution....
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
[Interrupts] But Minister, do you understand why Australians feel cranky at the Morrison Government right now? Particularly the millions of Australians in lockdown?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Oh, look, I can understand it. No one wants to be locked down but that is the best...
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
But they now look at the Federal Government, if you look at the data, it demonstrates that they are looking at your government and saying we should be vaccinated by now. We shouldn't be in this situation.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Well, as I just explained, the domestic manufacturing facility that we funded is pumping out the vaccines. There's plenty of those available. The distribution hasn't been interrupted in the other states. It's all going as planned in those states as well. It has been contingent on us getting the vaccines. And as I explained, we don't hold all the cards in that regard. We've entered commercial agreements with four suppliers, and we're getting it out as quickly as we can. There's more GPs and more pharmacies rolling on to be distribution centres and that will ramp up even faster than what we've got happening now.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Now, Australians who ordinarily live overseas won't be automatically granted permission to leave the country from 11 August. Is it right to require them to get an exemption like this?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Again, that is a really difficult issue. I can understand the logic I- as a true liberal conservative. I believe in the rights of the individual, freedom of association and movement. But in a pandemic that happens like this every 50, 100 years, it seems reasonable that we've got to know that people really have got a genuine reason. It's not blocking. From my reading of the release, it's filling out an exemption form like you have to do if you're coming into the ACT. So [Indistinct].
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
[Interrupts] But it's about limiting the number of people that can leave, right? Because quarantine is under pressure. So it leads me to the obvious question, why hasn't the Morrison government improved quarantine to create more Howard Springs-type facilities, so that you don't have to discriminate as you say you're not comfortable with doing against Australians?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Yeah, well, look, we are ramping up those quarantine facilities. There's one in Victoria being built, they're hopefully going to have 500 places there by the end of...
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
[Talks over] Do you think it's taken too long though?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Well, look, these things have to be negotiated with the states and we've been clear we're building it and they are operating it. The Howard Springs, the National Resilience Centre, has been ramped up to, at full maximum capacity, take 2000. You do understand, to get the land, build it. It does take time. And Jandakot in the West, and there are MAUs going forward to get a site in Queensland and elsewhere.
PATRICA KARVELAS:
[Talks over] I understand it takes a while. But with the benefit of hindsight, would you have liked to get this on the road a little earlier?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Look, PK, in life, hindsight is always 20/20 vision. We would have liked to have known about COVID-19 before it happened, but we're just living with what we've got. We are ramping up across the board, both in quarantine capability that's being built now, and we are ramping up even from an already rapidly speeding up vaccination programme. And I think we will reach our targets and hopefully these short, sharp lockdowns will suppress any very small outbreaks so that they don't get away from us.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Just final question on another issue. Christian Porter was made Acting Leader of the House this week because Peter Dutton obviously has to quarantine in the Queensland outbreak situation. So are you annoyed that you weren't asked to be Acting Leader of the House? You should have been by the basis of hierarchy.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Yeah, well, look, I'm new in the job, and that was a decision that wasn't taken by me. And…
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Would you have liked to have been the Acting Leader of the House? You're certainly a less controversial figure.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Okay, yeah, look frankly, I would. But look, that wasn't my call. It was all it was done and dusted. And I look forward to fulfilling the role in the future, if the occasion arises. And Christian is doing a wonderful job.
PATRICA KARVELAS:
Yeah, but he is, as I say, a controversial figure. We had Grace Tame writing that piece. She was concerned about his appointment. Did you have any words? Did Barnaby Joyce have any words? Did you raise that this maybe wasn't what should have happened?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
No. Look, Christian is a very capable Leader of the House. He did a sterling job before he took that leave. And he's doing a great job now. And I'm supporting him. I'm involved in the processes of that. But it was the call that it- by precedent when other people in the Leader of the House role, I do recall the former Deputy Leader didn't step up either. And I think they got used to that pattern of behaviour.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Are you going to put your foot down and say, next time it's my turn?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Look, I just get on with the job.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
But you did say you would have liked to have done it.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Yeah, well, look, I was honoured to be given the role, but that is- that's history now. We're just living with what has been organised. And I'm fully on board with that now and doing a good job supporting the current Leader of the House, which is Christian Porter.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
But is it a snubbing of the Nats? How should we interpret it?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Look, I think it's a reflection of past procedures. As I said, these occasions where the Leader of the House wasn't there, the former Deputy Leader of the House wasn't made Leader of the House. So I think they got used to that. With it'll- going forward, it will be all hands to the wheel, and I'm supporting the current Leader of the House, which is Christian Porter.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
All right. Thank you so much for joining us.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Thanks very much.