MARCUS PAUL:
Well, from 1 January next year, the Federal Government will incentivise graduates to start working outside metro areas and major regional centres by completely eliminating their remaining higher education loan program - that is the old HECS debt - after they have worked in general practice in a rural, remote or very remote location for a specified amount of time. Yesterday, when this story broken, and we spoke about it on the program, I received countless emails and a number of calls supporting this move. And I said so much yesterday, when we first discussed it, I thought it was a great idea. And I think it's something that can be extended in the future by the New South Wales Government when it comes to attracting teachers in regional and remote areas, considering we've got a teacher shortage. This is good news. Doctors who move to more remote areas, such as Walgett, Bourke or Nyngan in New South Wales, could have their debt paid off if they stayed for at least half as many years as their degree took to complete. I think it's amazing. And it's not just doctors, nurses as well, all of those involved in the health industry.
Regional Health Minister David Gillespie joins us on the program. Good morning to you, Dr Gillespie. How are you?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Yeah, very good, thanks, Marcus. You did a good summary there. That's what the policy is, and it's there to incentivise doctors at that sliding door moment when they decide coming to the end of their second medical degree because you got to do two degrees to get the full recognition. We incentivise them to stay rural. Not just go out there for three months' rotation or six months, but if you stay and work and live in that area, you've got to do at least 24 hours a week. A lot of our young doctors are women, so we don't insist on the 40 hours a week because many of them are going through starting a family and raising kids, and they work…
MARCUS PAUL:
Sure.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
They don't do the, you know, 50, 60 hours a week for 50 years, like the old GPs used to do…
MARCUS PAUL:
Yeah.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
They’ve got to have a work-life balance and same with everyone. We do need more doctors in rural and regional Australia. Everyone knows that we're short of doctors. There's three more times doctors in metro as there is in country, on a per head basis, and it's really affecting the hospitals in the country now because in Sydney, you know, the doctors at North Shore, none of them are GPs. But if you're at Brewarrina or you're at Parkes or Forbes, the doctors that run the ANE are the local GPs…
MARCUS PAUL:
Yeah.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
…So if you don't have GPs, you know, your hospital system gets caught short, and then you have to rely on telehealth, or you know, get transferred of wait- up to a big centre or into the big smoke. So it's a really timely initiative. As you can understand, we've got a long pipeline of all these rural clinical schools, but that takes about 10 or 12 years to finish going through all your med degree. Some of them have to do a pre-med degree now to get in…
MARCUS PAUL:
Yeah.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
…So they might end up doing three degrees, and they're about 35 by the time they finish some of them. So, we are putting this incentive there. Stay, have a great life, work at the local hospital, work in your general practice. You can get a little farm. You can have a great life. [Indistinct]-
MARCUS PAUL:
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
You know, it's a great lifestyle. I've worked in the country myself. I grew up in Queanbeyan, went off to Sydney, but when I went to practice, my wife and I moved up the North Coast. But along the way, I worked in western New South Wales. It's a great life. And this, I hope, will shift the dial and more people will come and stay.
MARCUS PAUL:
Well, I spoke to your colleague yesterday, and I passed on some of the comments. Paul Fletcher was on the program yesterday, the Communications Minister, and I had received emails from places this program is broadcast to, like Griffith, Orange, and elsewhere, where people think this is a wonderful idea to incentivise medical practitioners to relocate, if you like, to small, medium or large rural towns. We're talking Dubbo, Tamworth, Wagga Wagga. And, you know, if this sort of scheme works, which I think it will, and if you go on, say, averages, okay, not all of these medical practitioners, doctors or nurses will end up staying, but even if you work on a law of averages, that maybe a third or just a bit over will, that is a good start.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
It is a great start. We really do need to repopulate, you know, the nursing and medical staff in these areas. You know, rural hospitals, maternity units are closed because of shortages in staff. It makes a big difference to the whole economy of a country town if you don't have a bunch of doctors and nurses at the hospital, because young people think: oh gee, maybe I won't go there; if we ever start a family, I might have to, you know, relocate to the big state, you know. So, there's big ramifications if you let your health system thin out too much, because we want people to have a centre for commerce, for everything, and health service is a part of it. We are incentivising nurse practitioners too, because in those remote areas, the nurse practitioners take on much larger responsibilities …
MARCUS PAUL:
Yes they do.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
… so we want them there too, and pharmacists, and physios, and all the Allied Health. It's- the old saying it takes a village to raise a child …
MARCUS PAUL:
[Interrupts] Yeah.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
… well, it takes a whole suite of people to run a sustainable, well-balanced primary care system.
MARCUS PAUL:
Am I right in saying that nurses would have their debts wiped- their health debts wiped if they stayed remote for at least one year, is that right?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Well, it's nurse practitioners …
MARCUS PAUL:
Right.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
… they're nurses they have done their basic nursing degree, and then done a masters, so they get the HECS debt for the upgraded course, which can run for one, or if they're doing it part-time, a couple of years. So, they can accumulate a significant debt as well. And, with their nursing degree on top of that it's- you know, these HECS debt are quite considerable. That's why we're not giving them money, we just say: we will give your fee that's due for your HECS debt if you stay. But it's not just a flash visit to go there for a week every now and then.
MARCUS PAUL:
No, that's right.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
It's at least 24 hours a week for the year, and you've got to do at least half- if you're degree took six years, you know, the minimum stay has got to be two years, because some degrees are four years, so half of that is two, in the very remote areas. But if you're in, say, a Parkes or Forbes, or in Burrell, that's not remote enough to get the 50 per cent discount. You've got to do one year for one year, but a minimum of two.
MARCUS PAUL:
All right.
MINISTER GILLESPIE: But it will shift the dial. I think it's a good policy, and certainly country Australia deserves to get their fair share of the health work force.
MARCUS PAUL:
Well, that's right. I've always said it shouldn't matter what's your postcode, whether it's Rushcutters Bay, or, I don't know, back of Broken Hill. You should have access to the same amount of taxpayer-funded health resources that are available here in Australia. I- look, this, as you say, is good policy, and I think it may even prove a litmus test- and I'd love to talk to the New South Wales Premier about adopting a similar kind of program, perhaps to attract teachers, because you would be aware of the news cycle. We have an issue with teacher shortages, we've got strikes going on at the moment in New South Wales. And, you know, regional areas- remote areas are calling out for teaching resources. Maybe this is another good idea to incentivise, perhaps, teachers to go bush as well.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Yeah. I'm not over the detail, but, that is a good idea, what you're talking about.
MARCUS PAUL:
It is partially, yes. That's right.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Yeah.
MARCUS PAUL:
Alright, Minister, thank you very much for your time. I wish you and your family and staff a wonderful Christmas, and let's continue this conversation in the new year.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Righty-oh Marcus, well, have a good, happy Christmas and a great new year.
MARCUS PAUL:
Thank you, alright all the best to you. Bye-bye. There he is, Regional Health Minister Dr David Gillespie.