KATIE WOOLF:
Now if you listen to the show fairly regularly, you'll know that we've spoken at length over the last few months about some of the shortages that we've seen when it comes to doctors and nurses here in the Northern Territory.
Now, the Federal Government's got a proposal which would entice doctors and nurse practitioners to regional and remote areas of Australia. So, from January next year, the Federal Government's looking to wipe the university debt of doctors or nurse practitioners under a few conditions.
Now joining me on the show to tell us a little bit more about this is the Regional Health Minister, David Gillespie. Good morning to you.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Good morning, Katie. Pleased to be with you at the Top End.
KATIE WOOLF:
Well, David, this sounds like a, a really interesting proposal. Can you talk us through exactly how it's going to work?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Well, it's basically a waiver of your HECS or - in old lingo - or the HELP debt that you accumulate when you're studying for a medical degree or a nurse practitioner degree. And it's conditional on you, you have to have done three postgraduate years - so you can't be just a beginner baby doctor, you have to be either a senior registrar or becoming a fully Fellowed doctor. And if you've done a six-year degree, you can, by working six years, get the whole fee waived.
Which is interesting for Northern Territorians, it's more remote. So, there's a 50 per cent reduction on what is required. So, if you're in what areas are called remote, or very remote …
KATIE WOOLF:
Yeah.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
… and most of the Northern Territory is that outside Darwin. But the modified Monash system, if it's a six or a seven in the one to seven scale, you would only have to do three years instead of six years.
But if you've done a four-year degree, you would need to do two years.
KATIE WOOLF:
So-
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
You can't just do it a fly-in, fly-out job, you have to be doing 24 hours a week, you know, every week, making a commitment to the regional, rural and remote town or, or villages that you're working in, and you'll get your HELP debt waived. And nurse practitioners as well, not just medicos.
KATIE WOOLF:
And so when you talk about, you know, about the different areas of the Northern Territory, I'm assuming that, you know, somewhere like Gunbalanya would be, you know, would be regarded as remote? When you talk about a place like Darwin, would that be considered regional still? Or would it be excluded?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
No. No. Look, I'd have to look, but it's quite a big population, so it would be a (MMM) two probably. And it kicks in when you go from three to seven. So, towns less than 50,000 people would be a three. A small country town - say, 20,000 people - would be a four.
KATIE WOOLF:
Yep.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
A five would be like, more than 5,000. And then six is remote, and seven is very remote. So, I think Katherine is a six - so that gives you some indication. Darwin would be a two I expect, or- it's not big enough to be a one, that's, you know, big cities like Townsville or Cairns or Sydney or Melbourne.
KATIE WOOLF:
Well, I suppose it's, you know, it's a, it seems like a really good idea in theory. I think a lot of, you know, a lot of young uni students or, or people starting out would think, I'll do my time remote or in a regional location, and then be able to wipe my HECS debt. I suppose, are we, are we trying to look at enticing people from those major capital cities like Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, to places like the Northern Territory?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
We do, we always do. We have already in the Medicare rebate system, if you are more remote, you get more practice incentives depending on what services you are doing. And we are trying to add to that as well in a separate piece of work. Because we realised, if you're a GP working in a remote area or in a country town where you work at the hospital as well and look after accident emergency and deliver babies, or have to resuscitate people from, say, a car accident, that's different from sitting in suburbia or in a big city, where there's teaching hospitals on every second corner and lots of specialists, where you don't have to worry about that. You know, you're on call, it's a different work requirement. And we want to reward people for that extra skill and responsibility.
And we are encouraging general practitioners with those skills to stay in these country towns, because the workforce for the hospital is the general practitioner, the nurse practitioner, you know, level of workforce. In the city, they can run without any GPs. They've just got their own workforce. But in country, it's different.
KATIE WOOLF:
Well, then I guess it's even different again when you go quite remote into some of our remote Indigenous communities. But, you know, particularly here in the likes of the Northern Territory. Is there any worry that you might have doctors and nurse practitioners think: oh, I'd really like to do a stint in a remote place in the Northern Territory. But then, you know, they get there, they realise just how remote they are and, you know, can't sort of last the distance?
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Look, that may well happen, but I said, you can't just do a fly in for a month or two to qualify for it, you have to make a commitment at least 24 hours a week for the year, and a minimum of two years. And you can remit half or all of your HELP debt for your nursing masters or for your medical degree. And they're not all the same length.
Some med degrees are a post-grad degree, they take four years, some are five, and some are six. And depending on where you are, if you're in the inner regional areas, but in the country, it's one-for-one. You have to do six years to get a full six-year rebate relief. If you did a four-year degree, it'd be four years. So that's the principle. And from the doctors and the reception that I've got, a lot of people think it will shift the dial.
We don't have to wait for them to go through med school. They're registered early career doctors that we're after and we want them to stay and play, and raise their family and work as a highly-skilled professional. You're well supported by country towns, and communities love when they get a new doctor. And we are trying to give them an incentive so that the sliding door moment when they think: alright, I've done my registrar job, I'll go back to the city now. But will cause them to say stop: oh, okay, well, I've got a partner, young family coming along. Maybe I'll stay here, I'll get rid of my HECS debt and it will shift the dial. It won't move everyone…
KATIE WOOLF:
No.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
… but it will move a significant amount of people to make a big difference.
KATIE WOOLF:
Do you have any- you know, do you have, sort of, any ambition when it comes to the number of doctors that you are hoping, or the number of nurse practitioners that you are hoping are going to move to those regional and remote areas? There must be quite a few positions, I'm assuming, that need to be filled, right around Australia.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Oh yes, depending on which state you're in. There is a deficit in the Northern Territory. Some people go there for a short stint or fly-in, fly-out jobs, but they won't be the beneficiaries of this. It'll be the younger, early past-registration, young doctors who I think will see the benefit.
Not only is it a good financial deal, it's a good career deal, because you'll get amazing experience working in country hospitals and country general practise. It's much more diverse and fascinating than it is when you're back in central civilisation, in a metro practise. People still get sick in the cities, you know. I'm not discounting the work that GPs do in the cities.
But if you're practising in a country town, you've got so much more responsibility, and you got to have another level of skill, because they all start off the same at med school, and as a junior doctor. But then if you stop doing acts of emergency and doing resuscitation, or anaesthetics, you de-skill.
Whereas if you're working in a country town or a remote place in the Northern Territory, you've got to be able to call on those skills, maybe not every morning and afternoon, but it happens. Road crashes happen, heart attacks, sepsis, all those things, they can all happen. But you're it when you're in a country town.
KATIE WOOLF:
I'll be really interested to see, you know, if for the Northern Territory, it makes much of a difference come next year, and whether we do see some of those young doctors, or those newly minted doctors and nurse practitioners, heading to the Territory, places like Katherine, Alice Springs, I'm assuming, and then our remote areas, whether- you know, whether it does mean that people sort of head out to the regions and really sink their teeth into an interesting job.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Yeah, look, it will take a year or two to get the full benefit, because a lot of people are planning what they're doing next year already. But we're making it available. And I'm hoping it won't just entice people, it will keep people there.
KATIE WOOLF:
Yeah.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
Because we do have a cohort that's there already. And they might have been thinking: well okay, I'm going to go somewhere else, to Brisbane, or Toowoomba, or somewhere bigger centre. But this will entice them to stay.
KATIE WOOLF:
Well, David Gillespie, the Minister for Regional Health, I really appreciate your time this morning. Thanks very much for having a chat with me.
MINISTER GILLESPIE:
My pleasure, Katie.
KATIE WOOLF:
Thank you. We'll talk again soon. That is the federal Minister there for Regional Health, David Gillespie, just giving us a little bit more detail about the situation with- you know, with the HECS debt for some of these doctors and nurse practitioners.