Radio Interview with Minister Butler and Nadia Mitsopoulos, ABC Radio Perth – 17 March 2025

NADIA MITSOPOULOS, HOST: Well, the federal government is promising to make medical fees more transparent through a website called Medical Costs Finder. Mark Butler is the Federal Health Minister, and I spoke to him this morning as he landed in Perth.
 
MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGED CARE, MARK BUTLER: Good morning.
 
MITSOPOULOS: Can you just explain how the Medical Costs Finder works?
 
BUTLER: The whole problem is it doesn't really work at all. This was an investment the former government made towards the end of their time in government. And the idea was that medical specialists would upload the fees that they charge to this website. You'd then be able to search the website to ensure you are getting the best value as you went into your cataract surgery or your knee replacement. But what we found when we came to government, that of the 11,000 specialists covered by the scheme, only seven of them had registered. Only seven, not 7,000. Seven of them had uploaded their fees. And we gave them a chance to do better than that. To his credit, the AMA President at the time, Steve Robson, uploaded his fees trying to lead by example, but still a few years down the track, only 70 out of 11,000 have uploaded their fees. We're done with an opt in system. We're going to do it for them. We're going to upload all of their fees, all of the private health insurance arrangements, so that people will be able to search what ‘Doctor Smith’ charges for a knee replacement. Rather than experience the bill shock that more than 1 in 3 Australians who undertake these private procedures say that they experience.
 
MITSOPOULOS: So that means the fees of every specialist will now be uploaded, because I guess there's no surprise that being an opt in, a voluntary system, why would they want to be disclosing their fees in such a public forum?  
 
BUTLER: To ensure that their patients have the best possible information. There are too many stories of people getting ready to go into hospital the next day to have their knee done and then being told that their anaesthetist or their surgeon is going to charge a particular fee. They've gone too far to back out now. Professor Allan Fels, who used to run the ACCC, did a report on unfair pricing practices generally in the Australian economy last year. And he particularly pointed to this as a really clear problem with consumers, in this case, patients having inadequate information. It's really about people being clear what they are going to be up for if they end up having their cataracts replaced or their knee replaced. The truth is, there's a huge variety of fees. The information that we have, we have very good information at a Commonwealth level, shows that in postcode 6000, the city of Perth, if you're having a colonoscopy, 10 per cent of people will be charged less than $10 and 10 per cent more than $250. If you're having a knee replacement, 10 per cent will be charged less than $60, but 10 per cent more than $2,800. And there's no information available to tell you which side of that ledger you'll fall on.
 
MITSOPOULOS: So are specialists overcharging?
 
BUTLER: They're charging very high fees. That's clearly the case.
 
MITSOPOULOS: Does that mean they're overcharging?
 
BUTLER: That's really a matter for people to look at and to compare. What we'll do is ‘Doctor Smith’ will have their fees uploaded to this website. We will do the uploading, as the government we have access to all of that information. And alongside that fee that they charge for a knee replacement or whatever the procedure is, the national average fee will be there as well. And you can make your own judgement about whether that's a fair thing. You may well think ‘Doctor Smith’ is such a terrific surgeon that you'll pay whatever  ‘Doctor Smith’ charges because at the end of the day, you want to make sure that the best possible procedure is undertaken. But people have to have a line of sight about this. These are significant sums. We're doing whatever we can do to make it cheaper to see a GP, to make medicines cheaper. But these specialist fees for private procedures are increasingly becoming a bit of a barbecue stopper in Australia.
 
MITSOPOULOS: Federal Health Minister Mark Butler is my guest this morning on 720 ABC Radio Perth and WA. What about health insurers and the financial arrangements they have with specialists? Should we be able to see that information too?
 
BUTLER: Absolutely, and you will as well. There are 29 insurers, they were supposed to upload their data as well. Only three of them have done it so far. Again, we will upload that for them. You will be able to see if you're going into hospital ‘X’ for a particular procedure you will see clearly what your insurer will pay for that procedure, as well as seeing what the surgeon and what the anaesthetist, for example, will pay as well. The insurers have welcomed this. I think generally they think that it will be good for people to have much better access to information. But again, three out of 29 insurers uploading their data is just not good enough. We've given them a fair go. This has been $21 million that hasn't really given much of a return on that investment for taxpayers. We're going to do it ourselves and make sure that every bit of information we have access to is on the website.
 
MITSOPOULOS: Because I guess, Minister, it's hard for people to shop around in, this sector because obviously they need a referral from a GP and some GPs will have arrangements or tend to recommend one specialist over another. And then you have the long waiting list. So it's kind of hard for people to shop around if you like.
 
BUTLER: This isn't going to be a silver bullet for all of the issues we have in health. But what it means is that when you're talking to your GP, usually someone you have a good trusting relationship with and you know well, and they say it's time for you to go and consider a knee replacement, it's usually not do this tomorrow, it's let's plan for that. You'll be able to say to your doctor I'm concerned about fees that I'll have to pay, can I have a bit of a think about the options and, are you able to sort of give me a list of people and I'll have a look at their fees. At the moment, there's none of that. Just none of that available to people. You're right, you're given a name, sometimes that surgeon or anaesthetist or whatever the private specialist is will give you some idea of those fees pretty early, but more than 1 in 3 Australian patients now are saying that they suffer bill shock. They end up paying out of pocket costs they were simply unaware of, or if they become aware of them, it's really just at five minutes to midnight.
 
MITSOPOULOS: That was Mark Butler there, speaking to me a little earlier this morning.