ABO, HOST: Classified documents have detailed 2 separate tip-offs warning authorities about Bondi shooter Sajid Akram, dating back nearly 2 decades before the deadly terror attack. Joining us to discuss today's headlines is Minister for Aged Care Sam Rae and New South Wales Opposition Leader Kellie Sloane. Good morning to you both.
SAM RAE, MINISTER FOR AGED CARE AND SENIORS: Good morning.
HOST: Sam, the National Security was alerted to Akram back in 2007 and then again in 2014. There are obviously those previous reports about 2019 as well. How are Australians, and I suppose the Jewish community specifically, supposed to sit with that?
RAE: Well, Sarah these are very sobering reports that are coming out of this Royal Commission. I think we'll continue to hear some very distressing stories as the commission goes on. I know the security agencies will be looking, will be listening. They're obviously participating. There are lessons to be learned. The government is likewise paying close attention and where we can make improvements, obviously we will do that.
HOST: Do you think federal authorities have dropped the ball here? I mean, funding is also an issue when it comes to the spy agency.
RAE: I think we've got world-class national security agencies. What happened in Bondi was obviously a terrible, horrible, horrific attack on Australian soil. I know our national security agencies work very hard every single day with the very best people. They're internationally regarded to try and keep Australians safe, but there's always a better job we can do.
HOST: Kellie, by his own admission, Australia's spy boss, Mike Burgess, told the royal commission we can't be everywhere, we're not all-seeing and all-knowing and we don't aspire to be. While I understand that might be the case for everyday Australians, I think there are the families of 15 dead people who might think otherwise.
KELLIE SLOANE, NSW OPPOSITION LEADER: Well, I'm the Member, the local Member for Bondi and I was there. I saw the immediate aftermath of that attack. It was horrific. And I think our local community would expect, at the very least, that it is an ambition to stop something like this again. I have no doubt that Mike Burgess and the agency wants to do exactly that.
HOST: But shouldn't they be all-seeing and all-knowing about people who are on their watch list?
SLOANE: Absolutely. And I think this idea that red flags were raised a decade ago is alarming. It's concerning to the community. How do you grapple with that question of what if? What if that red flag had stopped them buying the guns? What if that red flag had remained? And it's a painful question to sit with and one that the community can't contemplate. We need to be absolutely focused right now on preventing this, making sure it never happens again.
HOST: Let's hope the royal commission actually delivers on that. Meanwhile a testy Question Time played out in the capital yesterday, the PM warning Angus Taylor his hard line against Labor's policies could see him replaced by MP Andrew Hastie. It was an interesting take down there. Sam, the PM's admitted capital gains carve-outs may extend beyond new tech start-ups. I mean, I think to the everyday Australian, it sounds a pretty convoluted way of saying that the government made a mistake.
RAE: Sarah, we've talked about this since Budget Night. We made the announcements on Budget Night. We made clear that we would consult across the Australian economy and the Australian community. That's the right thing to do. These are very ambitious reforms. We're trying to get the balance right between the tax arrangements for workers and the tax arrangements for investors. They have to be gotten right. We made clear we would consult. That's what Treasury are doing at the moment. What we've seen in the parliament is Angus Taylor presiding over a very unstable Liberal National Party. We've got One Nation creeping in. They're the ever-shrinking opposition. Every time we come to the parliament, it feels as if they have less and less seats and they are more and more unstable, which doesn't lend itself to a credible opposition nor one that can contribute particularly constructively to the important policy challenges of our country.
HOST: That's a very creative way of Sam avoiding the topic there, Kellie. Don't you think? I mean, we're still talking about it since Budget Night because it's deeply unpopular.
SLOANE: Yeah, and he's saying that, well, it's important that they consult after the fact, after this is baked into the Budget. How about some consultation before the Budget? Because they've created enormous instability and, quite frankly, the Prime Minister is rapidly losing trust with the Australian public.
HOST: Do you think this might be why the Treasurer is hinting at a possible sweetener next year for taxpayers?
SLOANE: Who would know? Look and this is the thing, there's enormous confusion at the moment, enormous erosion of trust. People see a federal government that is addicted to spending. There are more than a trillion reasons for young people not to trust this government because there's a trillion dollars of debt and it's escalating and the next generation has to pay for this. And this idea that they're addressing intergenerational inequity is BS. They are creating a debt burden for young people and that should not be forgiven.
HOST: Well, you and your opponent Chris Minns agreed on that then.
SLOANE: Well, we are and there's a reason he's backing away a million miles an hour from his federal colleagues but Labor, state and federal, is bad for business.
HOST: All right, well, just finally guys, let's end on something that does unite us all. And Australians are this morning of course remembering AFL legend and our country's greatest champion to find a cure for Motor Neurone Disease, Neale Daniher. Sam, you're a fellow Melbournian. This one hits hard, doesn't it?
RAE: Yeah, it does Sarah, Neale was one of the best Australians. Obviously, a huge career in football, but he was most powerful in the work that he did over the last years of his life in advocacy around MND. I had the honour of meeting Neale through that work. I've slid down the slide at one of my local footy clubs. People's awareness of this terrible disease and our steps towards finding a cure have been served by no one better than Neale Daniher.
HOST: You know what, Sam I got an interesting note from a viewer on social media yesterday. They reckon that maybe, for example, you could speak to your state colleagues and instead of wasting all those taxpayer dollars immortalising a deeply divisive former Premier maybe you could spend that money on actually immortalising a wholly-revered man like Neale. Don't you think that would be better for Victorians?
RAE: Well, I think Neale will be immortalised in the hearts and minds of Australians. His contribution is extraordinary. It goes beyond the specifics around MND and it really goes to the Australian spirit and the courage, the courage that man and, frankly, his family have shown through his battle with MND are extraordinary. And my heart goes out to his family. I offer them my deepest condolences.
HOST: Just quickly, Kellie, he was an Australian of the Year as well.
SLOANE: Yeah, and I agree with Sam there. What an extraordinary man, what a legend, and what a legacy, and we can honour that legacy by continuing to take up his challenge, whether it's plunging into the ice or supporting MND research, and hopefully his legacy, we will find a cure one day.