SARAH ABO, HOST: Joining us to discuss today’s headlines is Minister for Aged Care and Seniors, Sam Rae, and Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs, Ted O’Brien. Good to see you both this morning. So Sam, can you clarify the Government’s view on that for us this morning? How will taxing productive asset investments actually help make housing more affordable?
SAM RAE, MINISTER FOR AGED CARE AND SENIORS: Sarah, we've got to get a better tax balance between those people who earn their income by working and those who earn their income from their assets. And that's what fundamentally this is all about. Of course, we've already made clear that we'll consult with the start-up sector in order to get the settings right there. But there's [$3.5] billion of additional investment for new businesses through this budget. So, we'll continue to support new businesses to get set up in our economy to employ people, create jobs, but we do need to get those tax settings right if we want to get young people into homes.
HOST: The tax settings that a lot of politicians have benefited from that actually doesn't have any impact on housing, is that right?
RAE: Of course it has impact on housing.
HOST: In what way, though, Sam?
RAE: We know that in reality Sarah, investors are encouraged or are incentivised to invest in the property market and to receive those generous capital gains tax deductions. So it's about adjusting those, getting the settings right, making sure that our tax system is better balanced between those who work for a living and those who earn on their assets.
HOST: What about small businesses who are trying to employ people and contribute to the economy?
RAE: Well, 90 per cent of small businesses will have their quite generous capital gains arrangements preserved. There's no change to that. So this is a fairly small number of businesses, and as I said, we have made clear that we'll work with the start-up sector in order to get the settings right to encourage investment and ensure that we keep creating jobs in our economy.
HOST: Ted, does it sound like a bit of a tax grab to you or not?
TED O’BRIEN, SHADOW MINISTER FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Sarah, it's an entire tax grab. And look, Sam talking about trying to get settings right, that's code for saying they got the settings wrong only last week. You don't go and penalise start-ups to build new houses. If you take down the future of a young entrepreneur, that doesn't build a new house for anybody. What we've seen is a budget of broken promises now leading to a budget of broken dreams for young entrepreneurs. This is a Government that is killing the start-up community. We want to give people aspiration and hope for the future. Let young people have a crack, not penalise them for having a go, and that's what this budget does.
HOST: Sam, I thought this was interesting yesterday when the PM was asked about the barrage of memes mocking these changes. He had this to say. Take a listen.
[Excerpt]
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: I think some of them are very flattering, and I thank them for picking very nice photos of me, and I thank them for that.
[End of excerpt]
HOST: I mean, it's an interesting read of the room. Is it clever or is it just tone deaf?
O’BRIEN: Well, I think it's tone deaf, at the end of the day…
RAE: Look, our politics is increasingly personal-
HOST: Sorry, Sam.
RAE: No, go ahead Ted.
HOST: Go on Ted, you started.
RAE: Yeah, go on, Ted. Have a go.
O’BRIEN: The Prime Minister is just dismissing, as is Sam, a very serious issue here. We have small businesses on their knees already in this country, and this new tax is going to absolutely kill them. Now, they're sending different messages in different ways to the Government. The Prime Minister mocks them. Sam's mocking them. This is a serious issue. I think we've got to take it seriously. Small businesses are crying out there, and they deserve respect.
RAE: Oh, Ted, that's rubbish.
HOST: I don't know, Sam. I mean, people are feeling this.
RAE: No, Sarah, Ted is crying crocodile tears here. Let's be very serious. The Prime Minister made a quip. He was laughing off some personal attacks. That's what Australians do. We don't take ourselves too seriously. The issue at hand we take very seriously. We came out straight away and said that we'd work with the sector.
HOST: Doesn't sound like it, though.
RAE: Look, I don't think there are too many young investors in Surry Hills that have Ted on speed dial that are calling him up for advice about what the taxation settings should be in the Australian economy.
HOST: You've been seeing the same backlash that we all have been seeing. You're not ignorant to that. I mean, shouldn't the Prime Minister think more about the impact this is having? These sweeping changes that will affect every Australian, and particularly the ones you're professing to protect.
RAE: Of course the Prime Minister's thinking about that, Sarah. He's spoken extensively about that. But that's not what this is about. This is about personal attacks. And he did what every good Australian does. He laughed it off, he moved on, he got back to the core point, which is that we’re trying to balance the tax system. We're trying to make it easier for young people to get into housing. We're trying to balance the tax system between workers and investors. And we've said, when it comes to the start-up sector, we'll work with the sector, we'll get the settings right.
As I said, I don't think Ted and, mind you, Angus Taylor, are having too many conversations with young entrepreneurs in Surry Hills and other parts of Australia right now. They're making it up as they go, they're playing politics. This isn't about getting the settings right. This is about furthering their political interests.
HOST: Ted, there's talk these changes will be rammed through Parliament before July. We just have to move on. I mean, if these do get rammed through before July, that doesn't leave, obviously, much time for consultation. I suppose it's a bit of a pity there's no viable opposition to block it, though, Ted.
O’BRIEN: Well, give us the opportunity, and that's what the Government should be doing, to ventilate this. I mean, you can't take major tax changes to an election and not tell the Australian people about it. So Labor lied ahead of the election. Now they've come clean and said, actually, we're going to tax you more, and they want to close down debate. We've heard from Sam already, they need to engage further because they're not ready. You don't rush something that's not ready. The Australian people deserve to have this ventilated. They need a proper debate. And actually, Sam, we have been out there talking to start-ups, and we continue to. And we will continue to ram this message home because Labor is coming after aspiration. They're penalising young Australians. It is not what Labor has said this budget is about, mate. You know it. And that's why you want to ram this thing through. It is not fair. That’s the problem.
RAE: Ted, Labor is delivering five tax cuts for workers. Five tax cuts for workers, worth $2800 a year over the next couple of years.
HOST: Thank you both so much for joining us this morning. I really appreciate it.