ANDREW CLENNELL, HOST: Well, joining me live now is the Aged Care and Seniors Minister, Sam Rae. Sam Rae, thanks so much for your time. Chris Minns, there the New South Wales Premier. He says that the reason hospital funding is where it's at, is because there aren't enough aged care spots, and basically people who should be in aged care are in hospitals. They're in emergency departments. What do you say to that?
SAM RAE, MINISTER FOR AGED CARE AND SENIORS: Well good morning, Andrew. We know that issues around older people getting stuck in the hospital system when they should be in more appropriate care have been ongoing issues for a long period of time, and we've been working really closely with the states and territories to try and address those issues. We'll continue to do so. We're about to announce our latest round of capital assistance grants, which will increase supply of aged care across our community. And these are the steps that we can take to try and make sure that we've got appropriate aged care facilities to meet the needs of older people in our community.
CLENNELL: Now Chris Minns, he's also said that he's not going to sign a blank cheque when it comes to this health-NDIS deal. He's essentially saying you're not meeting your commitments on health funding. What'd you say? What do you say to that?
RAE: Well, look, I'll leave it to Premier Minns and to Minister Butler, the Federal Health Minister, to go through the process of discussing those national health funding agreements. It's an important process. It happens at a national level. I'll leave it to them to go through that process as it is appropriate to do so. But we've always taken the approach this Government, this Albanese Labor Government, of working closely with our state and territory counterparts to get the best possible outcomes for Australians. That's what we'll do through the health negotiations.
CLENNELL: Well that might be the case, but it doesn't sound like Chris Minns is that stoked with you at the moment, it sounds like he thinks he's getting a raw deal, or New South Wales is getting a raw deal.
RAE: These discussions are very early on in their piece. Andrew, I'm sure that Premier Minns has a set of interests. He'll be prosecuting those interests for the people of New South Wales.
CLENNELL: They've been going for two years. Sam Rae, they've been going for nearly two years.
RAE: We'll engage in those discussions in good faith, Andrew, to make sure that we get the best possible health outcomes for Australian people. Premier Minns has a job to do, as does Minister Butler, I think it's best that we leave them to work through the negotiations to get the best outcome for all Australians.
CLENNELL: Well, let's talk about your job. Do you accept there are too many people in this country waiting for an aged care home package?
RAE: Well, we've seen the demand in aged care grow very, very rapidly. Andrew, I don't know if you've noticed, but I've had a few opportunities in the Parliament this week to discuss these issues. In the last five years, we've seen the growth in demand from about 155,000 people receiving in-home care back in 2020, up to over 300,000 people receiving in home care today. In terms of Government investment, that's been an eight hundred per-cent growth in Federal Government investment in in home care over the last decade. So demand has been rising very, very quickly. We've got an aging population, and we've got an evolving expectation within our community about what appropriate aged care services look like, and it's why it's so important that we're going through this once-in-a generation reform process, which includes an overhaul of the in-home care system and growth of the number of packages that we can provide for people by 83,000 on top of The 300,000 that are already in the market.
CLENNELL: Do you accept, as was put to you in the Parliament this week, that many Australians are dying as they wait for your Government to give them a home package?
RAE: Well, Andrew, as I've said in the parliament, it is always deeply upsetting to hear of older people who pass away, either in care or waiting for care. It's why this reform program is so important. Older people in our community deserve the very best care. Every single older person across Australia deserves safe, dignified and high-quality aged care services. It's why I'm so committed to the reform program. It's why the Government is so committed to the reform program that we're rolling out at the moment,
CLENNELL: You wrote to the opposition last week in answer to an Order of Production in the Senate that more than 108,924 older Australians as of July are on the National Priority System for a Home Care Package they've been assessed as needing. Do you believe that's an acceptable number of people on that wait list?
RAE: Well, to be clear, Andrew, I also put in that correspondence that that was an unverified number. We have a process of verifying the number of people that sit on the National Priority System. That's a very important system. It needs to have great integrity. It's the system by which home care -
CLENNELL: Sorry. Sam Rae, do you believe the number? I mean, you have provided the number. You say it's unverified. Could it be 20,000 now, do you believe the number?
RAE: As I said, there's a verification process, but perhaps let me jump to the point that you're making. Andrew, I don't want to see people sitting on the National Priority System without aged care services. Now, whether the number is the last verified number, which is from the March Quarter, which was about 88,000 people, or the number that's been produced in the Senate this week, the point is that the number is too high from my perspective. It's why this reform program is so important. It's why these additional 83,000 packages that we announced last year and that we'll be able to introduce into the home care system over the coming weeks, is such an important process of addressing that demand issue.
CLENNELL: We've got an 88,000 figure in March and 108,000 figure in July. Difference, funnily enough, is 20,000 and you delayed releasing those 20,000 Home Care Packages. In fact, your Government voted against it in the Senate initially. Why? Was this a budgetary consideration that made you and Mark Butler make that decision to delay releasing those Home Care Packages when the when the sector said they were ready to service them?
RAE: I think there's a common misconception or misunderstanding here, Andrew, the Support at Home program that we're talking about here, the one that those 83,000 packages were initially assigned under, is due to begin on the 1 November. That requires a legislative framework that comes with the new Aged Care Act, and so where demands were made for us to start the Support at Home system before 1 November. We made very clear that that was not possible. We require the laws to be in place in order for Support at Home to begin.
What we've done this week is strike a bipartisan agreement to bring forward 20,000 of those packages into the current home package program. Now that package program is winding up on 1 November, but in order to meet that urgent demand, we've agreed to bring forward 20,000 of the 83,000 Support at Home packages to get some urgent supply into the market.
CLENNELL: Yes, but you voted initially against providing those packages. Was that because of budgetary considerations?
RAE: Our process this week, and our principle throughout this entire reform process, Andrew, has been to seek bipartisan agreement at every single opportunity. Now those conversations were happening right up until the last minute. We've got to a point where there was bipartisan agreement about how to roll out the Government's 83,000 packages, and that was our focus all the way through.
CLENNELL: Let me ask this again Sam Rae, when you voted in the Senate against releasing 20,000 Home Care Packages, was that, as was the delay because of a budgetary consideration? Or why else was it?
RAE: As I said, Andrew, the reason that we were going through this process, and the reason that voting in the parliament was as it was, was because we wanted to reach bipartisan agreement. At that point, we had not yet reached bipartisan agreement about the rollout, we did shortly thereafter. In the moment that we did reach bipartisan agreement, Minister Butler and I stood up, we gave a press conference, we explained to the media and to the Australian public what the rollout process would look like. But we needed bipartisan agreement before we could begin that process.
CLENNELL: Why did you delay the packages?
RAE: There has been no delay of packages, there has been a deferral of the Aged Care Act Andrew. With the Aged Care Act brings the legislative framework for Support at Home, so that brief deferral of four months was in order to help the sector get ready to accommodate this extra growth. They've now told us, particularly over the last week, that they believe they can rise to the challenge of meeting an additional demand of 20,000 packages that would be introduced over the coming weeks, we struck bipartisan agreement with the opposition on that, and that was the announcement that we made. That's what we're focused on rolling out moving forward.
CLENNELL: I wanted to ask you about Dan Andrews decision to go to China for the military parade and pose in a photo of leaders of Russia, Iran and North Korea. Chris Minns has just said posing in that photo was a mistake. Do you believe it was a mistake?
RAE: Daniel Andrews nor Bob Carr were there representing Australia. They were there as private citizens. I think they have to be accountable to the Australian public about the decisions that they've made. I wouldn't have done it.
CLENNELL: You were State Secretary and Campaign Director during Mr. Andrews tenure, so it's something you would have advised him against doing. Would you have advised him against going?
RAE: Mr. Andrews does not seek my regular advice when it comes to his decision-making Andrew.
CLENNELL: All right now tragically, Sam Rae, near your electorate overnight, near your electorate office in fact, I'm told we've seen a tragic crime, a twelve year-old boy and fifteen year-old boy stabbed to death. I wanted to get your reaction to this and also ask, is this another sign Victoria has a crime problem? The State Government must do more about.
RAE: Andrew, this has been a harrowing night for my community, these are incredibly distressing reports that have emerged. We've seemingly lost two children overnight. My job at this point is to support those families and support my community and to support the police to do their job in ensuring that we get justice for this heinous crime.
CLENNELL: Are you concerned about crime in Victoria?
RAE: This is an ongoing investigation Andrew and again, I really stress this, we've lost two children from our community overnight. My job is to support the family, support the community, and to support the police to bring justice for these kids.
CLENNELL: Sam Rae, thanks so much for your time.
RAE: Thanks, Andrew.