LARA STIMPSON, HOST: The NT Government has said that there are up to 80 patients eligible for residential aged care languishing in Territory hospitals at the moment with nowhere to go. And until a facility is up and running, the NT Government is losing about $40 million a year caring for elderly patients who are unable to access beds in those aged care residential spaces. But in his visit to the Top End yesterday, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese says that the Federal Government, they finally settled on a provider for the new aged care facility in Palmerston after an expression of interest process that has been underway for a little while now. And Sam Rae is the federal Minister for Aged Care and Seniors. Good morning to you.
SAM RAE, MINISTER FOR AGED CARE AND SENIORS: Good morning, Lara.
HOST: So you have settled on your preferred provider. That is Ozcare, a provider based in Queensland. How long before this deal is signed and work can get underway on building this facility?
RAE: Well, Lara, the first thing to recognise here is that we've got an ageing population all across our country. But we know that the Territory is no different, and Darwin in particular. So through the last election campaign, there was some extraordinary hard work by people like Luke Gosling, particularly, the Member for Solomon, as well as Marion Scrymgour, to advocate for more and better facilities for older Northern Territorians. And so, the federal government is partnering with the Northern Territory Government to deliver this new facility at Palmerston. It's going to be about 120 to 150 beds as we work through the finer details. And as you said, we've just finished the expression of interest process. Ozcare, who are a very established provider of facilities of this size, have been selected as the preferred provider. And now, we'll quickly go through the grant process and get this on the move as quickly as possible.
HOST: Why Ozcare?
RAE: Ozcare are, as I said, a really well-established provider. They currently operate 19 residential aged care homes in Queensland, and they've got a very strong track record of delivering the complex construction that's associated with a facility of this size. So when you're making a decision about a preferred provider, you have to balance a whole range of considerations. As I point out, one of those is a quite complex construction process that we want to roll out really quickly. So we don't want the construction of the facility to hold things up. They also have to make a contribution, in terms of the financial contribution to that and manage the project itself. We also want to make sure that we get the very best care for Territorians, as well as making sure that care, where appropriate, is culturally appropriate for people.
So those are the kinds of things that we're weighing up, and on that basis, Ozcare were determined to be the best provider. They've got, as I said, 19 facilities, about 5 of which are a similar size to the one that we're going to be building in Palmerston. And they also have a really strong track record of working First Nations communities to make sure that they can deliver culturally appropriate care.
HOST: Seems positive on the face of it. We'll see how it all goes. When it comes to how much they'll have to chip in, do you know what that funding split will ultimately look like between yourself as a federal government, the NT Government, and Ozcare? And who, if there are cost blowouts, as there often are, if there are some additional funding challenges in terms of building this facility in a place like Palmerston, who will stump up the extra cash for that?
RAE: Well, the major parts of the funding of this project are between the Northern Territory Government and the federal government, and I give a big shout out to the Northern Territory Government. Australians want to see their governments working hand in hand. And [Chief Minister] Finocchiaro and Steve Edgington, the Health Minister, have been very helpful and extraordinarily supportive of this project. The Northern Territory Government are providing the land next to Palmerston Hospital for this to be established, and it's the perfect spot for that to happen, close to healthcare facilities within that precinct already. And then, the federal government are putting in $60 million for the construction to get this project happening as quickly as possible.
HOST: You're hearing this morning from federal Minister for Aged Care and Seniors, Sam Rae, about this announcement that Ozcare is the preferred provider to build, develop, and run eventually the facility in Palmerston, announced yesterday after an expression of interest process. Now, can I just ask, are you aware of what their stance is on voluntary-assisted dying or euthanasia? I've just had that sort of raised with me that there might be some issues with that in Queensland. Is that the case?
RAE: The focus of this project is about making sure that Territorians get aged care services as quickly as possible. That's what this process, the EOI process, has been all about. It doesn't deal with those other health matters. It is focused on getting the best possible aged care for older Territorians, and that's why Ozcare have been chosen. We've got to build a very large facility and we want to do it as quickly as possible. And then, we want to provide the very best care within the facility. Those are the parameters that we've focused on in determining Ozcare as the preferred provider.
HOST: Is this a conflict that you've had to manage as a minister, with lots of states and territories – and the Territory is now on an independent journey towards legislating voluntary-assisted dying – conflicts between the view and perspective of aged care providers and individuals?
RAE: Well, just to be clear, the Albanese Government, since we were elected, has a very strong track record of empowering the territories to make decisions about their own legislation when it comes to meeting the needs of their own communities, and I think that that is very much appropriate. Obviously, end-of-life pathways are a critical consideration when it comes to aged care, and we work really carefully and sensitively with families and with professionals across the sector to get the very best outcomes for people. But this project is focused on meeting that very real demand that we've got. We’ve got an ageing population, and we've got increasingly complex health needs across the community. And our families – we all want to see the best possible outcomes for our loved ones, for our grandmas and grandpas. And so, that's what this project is about, 120 to 150 beds that will be a significant uplift of capacity for high-quality aged care for the people of the Territory.
HOST: Now, the big question, I'm getting lots of feedback on this already, is staffing. Where are you going to find the people to run this facility? And we had a text on this earlier from someone who got in touch saying that their partner works for a large provider. This text says, 'I mentioned this new development to her and she laughed and stated that this is not even going to scratch the surface: “If you're going to build one, it's better to go bigger and staffing is going to be a challenge, we can't attract people because the pay is so bad.”'
And I'm sure you're very across the stats on this, Minister, but the number of people aged 80 and over projected to double by 2050 in the next 25 years. That's twice as many aged care staff to be needed. Healthcare and social support job vacancies and ads, they're at the highest of any industry, between 30,000 and 35,000 additional direct aged care workers a year are already needed, and the shortfall by 2030 likely to be upwards of 100,000 full-time equivalent workers. The Territory struggles with attracting this kind of workforce. What is the plan in conjunction with the NT Government to make sure that this facility, once it's built, 120 to 150 beds, has the staffing required to operate it?
RAE: Lara, we've got extraordinary people that provide care across our economy, and the aged care sector is a particularly good example of this. It takes a really special person, whether they're working as a personal support worker in the space, right through to registered nurses and everyone in between. These are really special people, they are highly skilled jobs.
HOST: They absolutely are. The problem is, is that we just don't have them living here in the Territory right now at the number that I think it's going to be needed. So how will you solve that problem?
RAE: This is not just a Territory-specific issue, although I acknowledge it does exist there as well. But this is an issue all across our economy. Unfortunately, because the last government didn't invest in skills and training and, importantly, in wages for care workers, it meant that we've had a shortfall when it comes to meeting the needs of our community. Now, since we were elected we've invested very heavily in skills and training across TAFE and universities, but importantly we've also invested $17 billion in the wages for aged care workers. So we are now re-attracting the very best people to want to come and work in the aged care sector. We're having people who are moving from other sectors into the aged care sector, people who always wanted to work in the aged care sector. It's a very fulfilling space to work, particularly for medical professionals, because they have a continuity of care that they might not get in acute care environments. So we have people coming into the sector for the first time in a long time. I acknowledge that we've got work to do to make sure that we get up the supply of workers to meet demand. And of course, we'll be continuing to invest in the Northern Territory to get the very best people into the sector to provide the very best care.
HOST: Those pay rises, though, I think it was your predecessor in that role, Anika Wells who passed that legislation into law to provide those pay rises. And I think there's lots of people in the community who would commend that work and are in support of it. But a number of years later now, we're still facing those staffing struggles. And there are – you know, I'm getting lots of texts and calls about this at the moment with people who are concerned that there's not going to be enough staff and that facility will perhaps not run at capacity because it cannot be staffed properly. So is there something on the table at the moment? How are you actively considering that to work with Ozcare to ensure that there is the right amount of staff to make it work once it's built?
RAE: So we're still rolling out those pay rises. There are new pay rises that are rolled out semi-regularly and we just rolled out the [fourth] tranche of pay rises for aged care workers towards the end of last year. So those pay rises are ongoing, but as I said, a $17 billion uplift in wages for people working in aged care is very significant and it has brought the wages of aged care workers up to the standard that we would all expect for people who are highly professional, highly skilled providers of care. There is definitely work to do. We're very committed to making sure to invest in skills and training, both for people who are thinking about coming into the aged care sector, as well as people who are already in the sector who want to lift their skills and capacity. So we'll continue to work across the sector, in the Territory, as well with Ozcare, to make sure that get the very best care out this new facility as we get with all of the facilities across the Territory.
HOST: Would you work with Ozcare to perhaps, I don't know, devise some sort of incentive scheme to attract people from interstate or, you know, skilled migrants to come and work in this sector? Is that something that you would look to do?
RAE: We'll give consideration to anything that gets the best outcomes for older Territorians. And the same goes for everyone across Australia. My job every single day, Lara, is to make sure that older Australians are getting the very best care that they can possibly be provided. And we leave no stone unturned when it comes to that. Skills and training are critical investments in order to make sure that we've got a pipeline of people and making sure that they get paid right through those big wage uplifts is critical to making sure that we can hold on to them for the long term.
HOST: But there is no specific new plan to attract additional workers to staff this facility?
RAE: We've already begun the process of investing in the training and skills required in the Territory to make sure that we've got a pipeline of workers for the future. So again, as I said, investing in skills and training is the long-term plan. We've got fantastic educational facilities in the Territory and we're attracting new people into the sector all the time. It's very positive. There's more work to be done. I don't pretend for a second that we can hang our caps up on this job yet, but we've got a good pipeline of people that are coming in and that we'll be able to retain by making sure they get paid properly in the longer term.
HOST: Okay, so nothing specific for us yet, but watch this space. Sam Rae is the federal Minister for Aged Care and Seniors. Just finally, before I let you go, there's been a development application which has been submitted to the NT Government for a 32-bed residential aged care facility in Wadeye. Can you give us any updates on this? Who's funding it? Do we know who'll staff it, operate it? Do you have any details to provide us on that this morning?
RAE: There's been a long-term discussion about that and I've had conversations with colleagues across the Territory and in Canberra about it. I think there's a really positive conversation happening in that space. At this point, the focus for me is making sure that we get these 120 to 150 beds rolled out as quickly as possible in Palmerston. That's where we've got the agreement with the Northern Territory Government to make that happen. That's the focus at the moment. But this is work that's never done. We've got an ageing population. We want to make sure that every Australian can access safe, high-quality care and, of course, culturally appropriate care where it's needed as well.
HOST: I appreciate your time this morning. Thank you so much.
RAE: Thanks, Lara.