KARVELAS: So, this issue of how to respond in relation to Gaza, the pressure Australia should be applying, that's still unfolding across the Parliament. You would have seen David Pocock joined us earlier; he's a Senator who's been very outspoken on this issue. He called for sanctions on Benjamin Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of Israel. Sussan Ley wouldn't say there was starvation, but she did say the images were distressing. The Prime Minister has been very strong in his language when he addressed the Caucus today.
I want to bring in my political panel for today. Rebecca White is the Assistant Minister for Health. James McGrath is a Liberal Senator and the Shadow Special Minister of State. Welcome to both of you.
REBECCA WHITE, ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGED CARE: Thank you so much, PK.
KARVELAS: And congratulations on your appointment. I think, you know, straight onto the front bench, always impressive to be able to do that. I want to talk about this situation in Gaza first before we move on to another couple of issues. This issue of starvation and not taking enough action, that's the critique that the Government's not taking enough action. Rebecca, I don't want you to list all of the action because I think we've been talking a lot about the things that the Government's already been saying, but if you listen to someone like David Pocock, he joined me before, he says words aren't enough and it's still just words. It's stronger words all the time, but it's not enough action. Only two ministers have been sanctioned. Does the Government need to get more serious about sanctioning more people?
WHITE: Well, the Australian government's been very consistent in the position that we've taken, and we have held that position for a long time now. And it's been something that we heard the Prime Minister speak about in Question Time again today, that we've now been joined actually by a number of countries around the world calling on peace to be achieved in the Middle East and, of course, that's incredibly challenging. They're calling on Israel to uphold its obligations under international law.
The Prime Minister talked about the sanctions that have been imposed on some of the senior ministers in the Israeli Government. And we're working as a middle power cooperatively with other nations to ensure that we do everything we can do to provide opportunity for people who are living in absolutely perilous conditions in the Middle East to access the humanitarian aid they need and to put pressure on where we can apply it.
KARVELAS: James McGrath, simple question. Is this starvation?
JAMES MCGRATH, LIBERAL SENATOR: Well, as Sussan Ley said, the images we're seeing from Gaza are distressing, and the Coalition is calling upon the Israeli Government to do more. But we can make sure that this all stops tomorrow effectively, if Hamas release the remaining hostages so that they can be freed, and that Hamas pull back from trying to interfere with the aid convoys going into Gaza.
KARVELAS: Okay. I spoke to your colleague Dave Sharma here yesterday and I think you'd agree that he knows a bit about this region as a former ambassador for Australia. He said, if you're a starving child, blaming Hamas, it's all irrelevant. Israel needs to step up and they need to be held to account for this. He was pretty clear in his comments. Do you agree with him?
MCGRATH: Yes, and I said that earlier. The Government of Israel need to do more, and the Coalition have been calling upon the Government of Israel to do more to ensure that aid is getting through to those people who need it.
KARVELAS: Okay, so you are clear there. Because it is starvation, though. I mean, Donald Trump said it's starvation. It is starvation, isn't it, James?
MCGRATH: What we are saying is, the images we are seeing from Gaza are very distressing and that the Israeli Government should be doing more to ensure that the aid is getting through to the people who need it.
KARVELAS: Why is there a reluctance, with respect, to call it starvation?
MCGRATH: I don't think there's a reluctance at all. What we are saying is that the Israeli government should be and could be doing more to alleviate the situation in Gaza.
KARVELAS: Okay. So, you've heard there, Rebecca, that the Opposition does want more done. There is reports this afternoon - just a final question on Gaza, I do want to move on - but there are reports that maybe the UK might shift in terms of recognising a Palestinian state. Rebecca, if that was to happen, would Australia have to consider joining?
WHITE: Well, the Australian Government, and this has been a bipartisan position across the Parliament to recognise, is that we want to see and achieve a two-state solution here. But it's not just a token gesture. We actually want to make sure that people who are living in both the Palestinian state and in Israel are safe and there are secure borders, and that they can do so with the governance structure that that is going to provide stability for the region.
I don't think any of us at the moment feel that it's possible, with Hamas being so dominant in the region, to just simply declare a Palestinian state without having grave concerns for what that looks like. And the Prime Minister has been clear that we won't do this as a tokenistic gesture. It is about making sure that when we can join with other nations across the world to support a two-state solution, we would like to see that achieved. And I understand that both sides across the Chamber believe the same thing.
KARVELAS: Look, the other big issue that played out today in Question Time was a focus on health and the Government's promises on health. James McGrath, the Prime Minister seemed to enjoy the focus. Now, I know you're in the Senate, but, you know, he was kind of enjoying the focus. Just walk me through why the Opposition has chosen this path. Based on this, it's years away from when actually this promise of 90 per cent coverage for bulk billing even is promised to be delivered. So why now?
MCGRATH: Well, one of the things I think your viewers may be unaware of is that that the bulk billing rates under the Labor Government have actually decreased. So, when we lost power, they were at 88 per cent and they're now down to 77 per cent. And the Coalition also strongly believes that, during the recent election campaign, the Labor Party ran effectively another Mediscare campaign. We all saw the Prime Minister on his tour around Australia pulling out his Medicare card.
It is our belief, and it's based on the evidence that we've seen, that their promises will not be able to be delivered and that people are still going to be able to need to use their credit card to go and see a doctor. And that the promises are not believable, and the lies that they spread about us during the recent election campaign are just further evidence of another Mediscare campaign.
KARVELAS: You are the new Assistant Minister on Health, Rebecca White, so you're all over this, that's for sure, although you both have been all over everything actually, to be fair to you. But it is very much your portfolio area to look at. Is the point that the Opposition making - I mean, it does have some merit, doesn't it? A lot of us, when we go to the doctor - definitely me, I'm sure some viewers would also agree with this - we do have to show up our credit card or our, you know, whatever card we have where we pay out of pocket. That's a reality, isn't it?
WHITE: It is for some people, and that's why we've got a really ambitious agenda to invest significant amounts of money, $8.5 billion, in strengthening Medicare. This was a hallmark of the election campaign. And I point out that the Opposition matched this policy commitment, so it is interesting to me that they're asking these questions and asking for details about a policy that they themselves took to the same election.
And what we are seeing is an improvement in access to healthcare for Australians, and that's because of the Strengthening Medicare effort that this Government has taken. It's about making medicines cheaper. We introduced legislation to make sure that, from 1 January next year, PBS scripts come down to $25, a price people haven't seen since 2004. Expanding access through urgent care clinics, there’s 87 across the country. They are all fully bulk-billed.
And we know we need to increase bulk billing rates. We've invested significant amounts in growing the workforce, whether it's doctors or nurses, but also doing more to provide greater subsidies for those practices that are bulk-billing. We are very confident that, by the end of the decade, nine out of 10 visits to a GP practice will be bulk billed. And we're already seeing and hearing from doctors, and I see this in my own electorate, of people who are telling me that they're going to move to a fully bulk-billing practice because of the confidence they have in the Labor Government's investment in Medicare. And I think that'll see major improvements for access to healthcare, affordable access to healthcare right across the country.
KARVELAS: The last issue that I just wanted to raise with you both is in relation to tariffs. Donald Trump talking about between a 15 and a 20 per cent range. James McGrath, I mean, Donald Trump talks a lot about different rates of tariffs, and sometimes that shifts. Is it wise that the Government doesn't overreact because they're proceeding, they say, very carefully rather than jumping at everything that gets said?
MCGRATH: We're disappointed that the Prime Minister hasn't had a meeting yet, a proper meeting yet, with President Trump. It's been 265 days since President Trump was elected President of the United States, and we think it is important for our Prime Minister, our Head of Government, to meet with the Head of the United States to talk about the issues.
Now, President Trump has an America First policy, good on him for doing that. But I want the Prime Minister of this country to have an Australia First policy and make sure that he goes in there with his ministers and the ambassador and everybody and advocate strongly for Australia. Now, former prime minister Scott Morrison was able to do that. Former prime minister Malcolm Turnbull was able to do that when President Trump was in power first time around. It's just strange that Prime Minister Albanese seems reluctant to really sort of engage with President Trump, and we're disappointed by that and we think Australia will be hurt in the long run because of his reluctance.
KARVELAS: Rebecca White, is there a reluctance? Because it is factually correct, the point that Senator McGrath makes, that there hasn't been a meeting and we're clearly about to potentially be slapped with even a bigger tariff than the baseline 10 per cent.
WHITE: I don't think anyone could accuse this Prime Minister of not being a strong advocate for our country. He's always acted in our nation's best interests. And we actually have the lowest tariff rate of any country in the world. It's equal to others who also are on 10 per cent. But that is due to the relationship that we have with the United States and it's a respectful one, built on a long history, and it's not dependent on one single person talking to another person. It's built on a relationship that's been developed over decades.
I'm confident in our Prime Minister's ability to make sure he stands up for Australia's interests, as he has always done. And we're going to deal with this as mature countries do with one another who've got a relationship that goes back a long way and I'm sure can withstand some of these bumps that we're seeing at the moment when it comes to tariff discussions. The Prime Minister has been clear that these are not the acts of a friend of Australia, and I have every confidence in him and our entire executive to be able to lead negotiations.
KARVELAS: And James, it isn't the act of a friend, is it?
MCGRATH: It’s the act of someone who's putting their country first, and I want to make sure that the Prime Minsiter of this country and his executive and the ambassador and everybody puts their front foot forward to put Australia first and advocate strongly for Australia.
KARVELAS: But that doesn't put America first, does it? I mean, that's contrary to your ideas, isn't it, about free trade? It's American consumers and American businesses that are getting slapped with this. He's not really putting America first, is he?
MCGRATH: Well, I'm someone who believes in free trade. I'm someone who doesn't believe in tariffs. He is the democratically elected President of the United States. They're the policies he's putting forward. I think it's in Australia's benefit and America's benefit to have strong free trade between the two nations. But they're his policies. It's our job to get the best deal possible for Australia, noting that they're his policies. President Trump is someone who likes doing a deal. We saw that with former prime ministers Turnbull and Morrison in relation to their relationships with him, and I'd hope that Prime Minister Albanese, for the sake of Australia, can do something similar.
KARVELAS: Okay. I just want to ask, finally, about the sort of debate that we've seen in the Parliament this week in relation to net zero. And I am going to start with you, James McGrath, because-
MCGRATH: [Interrupts] Really? I'm so surprised. It took this long for net zero to come up, so I'm not surprised.
KARVELAS: Okay. So telling people how the sausage is made, I have headings and ideas of my questions, and I put it number four. I think that's very kind of me. Maybe too kind, James McGrath, so I will ask you first. The Nationals, and a Liberal, actually, to be fair, all stood up. There was a whole lot of them, all blokes I observed, standing up with the bill that Barnaby Joyce is introducing. How helpful is this as you try to reconnect with middle Australia, with young people?
MCGRATH: Well, the thing I would say is, in relation to net zero and any policy issue, my party is a boisterous party. We're a party of freedom. People are allowed to have different views. And no one should be surprised that Barnaby Joyce and Matt Canavan have different views to, say, Jane Hume and other people like that. We believe in freedom. And especially if you're on the backbench, you can say and do whatever you want. That has been the case of centre-right politics since our inception.
Now, what Dan Tehan is doing as a relevant Shadow Minister, he's got a review underway to look into the energy space – he's going to focus first on gas – to make sure we do bring forward those policies that can, as you say, connect not just with young Australians, but with all Australians. Because I want to make sure that we do win the next election, we win as many seats as possible, because I think Sussan Ley will make a great Prime Minister and someone will be able to do deals with President Trump. But I don't understand why this building is having - it's almost like everyone's overdosed on caffeine or something like that.
KARVELAS; No, I don’t think that. Not fair. I'll tell you why your argument is not fair, and must be contested strenuously by me. You have a review process. They're trying to get ahead of your own review process. That's very interesting.
MCGRATH: But so what? They're allowed to do that. They're on the backbench. We shouldn't be surprised by this. This whole building at the moment is having a meltdown because some members of the National Party have a different view on net zero and want to push forward and advocate for their views. Guess what? Good on them. So what? There are many other issues out there. I want to focus on Chris Bowen. I want to focus on the fact that Labor promised to cut power bills by $275. And hands up everybody whose power bills have gone down by $275. No one's power bill's gone down.
KARVELAS: Okay. All right.I'm going to ask you one very pointy question, and then I'm going to ask a pointy question on a different issue to Rebecca because I'm all about being very fair around here. The question to you is, do you support net zero by 2050?
MCGRATH: As a member of Shadow Cabinet, I'm bound by Shadow Cabinet solidarity. But I'm one of those people who thinks, yes, we should reduce our emissions, but we've got to make sure that we don't crash the economy while we're doing so.
KARVELAS: Okay. Rebecca, the tricky question for you is, just in terms of Tasmania where you all did pretty well at the federal election, what on Earth happened just a couple of months later at the state election where the Labor vote tanked? What's going on there?
WHITE: Yeah, Hare-Clark is an interesting electoral system that we seem to very much love in Tasmania, but it does turn out some strange results at times. The voting is still ongoing in Tassie, and we're looking at how that might be resolved. But of course, there's quite a lot for us to look at there with respect to the Labor primary vote.
It is disappointing to see where it is after the state election, particularly following a very strong federal election result. And I've got some great friends who put their hand up to be a candidate and sadly were not successful. Elections can be pretty brutal like that. I’m quite sure that the leadership team and the state office will be looking at those results to understand what took place, PK, because it wasn't the result we were hoping for.
KARVELAS: And I've got to ask, I mean, you must be rapt that you left state politics in that case, right?
WHITE: I wouldn't say rapt. I mean, it's disappointing any time Labor doesn't win government wherever you might be, whichever jurisdiction. I'm always a champion for Labor values and Labor Governments because I think they deliver better outcomes for our community. So, I wouldn't say I describe it that way, but I certainly am loving the job that I'm doing at the moment.
KARVELAS: Okay, diplomatically answered by both of you. Thank you to both of you. You've been a great panel. Love to get you on together again.
KARVELAS: Thank you.
WHITE: Thanks, PK.