TV interview with Minister Butler, Today Show – 2 September 2025

KARL STEFANOVIC, HOST: Well, the Albanese Government is this morning acknowledging that some Australians marched in anti-immigration rallies because of legitimate concerns. To discuss, we're joined by Health Minister Mark Butler from Canberra. Mark, good morning to you. Nice to see you this morning.
 
MARK BUTLER, MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGEING, MINISTER FOR DISABILITY AND THE NDIS: Thanks, Karl.
 
STEFANOVIC: Let's clear some things up if we can this morning. What is Australia's migration figure for this year?
 
BUTLER: The net overseas migration figure is published regularly by Treasury. It's been coming down substantially since it peaked, unsurprisingly, after COVID. There was an influx of people back in. The number last year, as I recall, it was still lower than the migration predictions that the former government had made before COVID. We're getting back down to more normal levels. And it's really a balance, Karl, between making sure that we've got the workforce we need. I know, as the minister responsible for our health system, our aged care system, our disability care system, also our construction industry, all of those sectors of the economy are desperate for workers at a time of very low unemployment, while also managing some of the constraints I know your viewers worry about on housing, on infrastructure, on transport as well. And we're working really hard to get that balance right.
 
STEFANOVIC: So the target was 185,000. What's the actual number?
 
BUTLER: I don't have that number right off the top of my head, Karl, as the Health Minister.
 
STEFANOVIC: Does anyone have it?
 
BUTLER: It's higher than that. Yeah, it's published very regularly by Treasury. We update that report very regularly.
 
STEFANOVIC: Would it be less than –
 
BUTLER: It's down, I think, about 40 per cent from the peak.
 
STEFANOVIC: Would it be less than 500,000? More than 500,000?
 
BUTLER: It's substantially less than 500,000. There was a big spike after COVID as people returned from overseas, particularly international students who'd left and gone back home during that once-in-a-century pandemic. But we're through that spike. We're starting to see the rate come down to more normal levels. But as I said, I think there is a real tension between recognising that there are real pressures on our housing system and other parts of the economy, while also, I know, intimately, recognising we're really struggling to get the workers we need to deliver the hospital services, the aged care services and build the houses we need.
 
STEFANOVIC: So Tony Burke says that he'll release the permanent number for migration. I don't know why that would be held back. Why would that be held back?
 
BUTLER: That number is a decision of government. It's made as a decision of government and reported in the usual way, but obviously it's impacted by the number of people leaving as well. The key figure is the net figure, the difference between the number of people who come in as skilled migrants usually, family reunions, the humanitarian intake, minus the number of people who leave.
 
STEFANOVIC: Isn't the key figure the number of people who are coming in?
 
BUTLER: No, it's the number of people coming in minus the number of people leaving, because the number of people leaving are obviously leaving houses, leaving apartments, leaving bedrooms and creating less pressure.
 
STEFANOVIC: How many are leaving?
 
BUTLER: We're back down to a more ordinary level of people leaving the system. The big traffic through –
 
STEFANOVIC: This is a bit like an episode of Frontline.
 
BUTLER: The big traffic through, Karl, is actually international students. They're the big numbers. They come in, then they leave.
 
STEFANOVIC: You can understand, this is not your portfolio, but I think in government it's pretty hot in the news right now, and knowing the numbers would be good. And also I think that you are empowering extremist views by doing and saying nothing about it and not doing anything about it.
 
BUTLER: No, we've got that figure down, I think, off the top of my head, by about 40 per cent from the peak that we saw after COVID. The peak was unsurprising, given the number of people who had left, gone back home, particularly those international students who were a big part of our university sector. They did come back, but we're getting those numbers back down to a more ordinary level of immigration. We’re a big immigration country have been really forever, but certainly for some decades.
 
STEFANOVIC: So more cuts to come?
 
BUTLER: We're still getting that number down. It's started to come down substantially over the last few years since we've been in government, but we recognise that we need to do this to relieve some pressure. But, Karl, I also know that, as I talk to hospital operators, aged care operators, people wanting to build new houses, they are desperately short of labour. Our unemployment rate is just a bit over 4 per cent. Our participation rate is as high as it's ever been. We don't have a lot of unused labour here in Australia. This is a balance as a government we need to strike quite responsibly.
 
STEFANOVIC: Yeah, I mean, you've got Buckley's of building 1.2 million houses in the timeframe you've given yourselves. Let's move on to your portfolio, though. Labor has passed new laws to slash the cost of PBS scripts. This is a good thing. Where are the savings coming from?
 
BUTLER: This is something we think is an important thing to fund as government. It's not only good for patients' hip pockets, it's good for their health. We're striking that, ticking 2 boxes, if you like, through a cost-of-living measure that's good for household budgets. But I also am confident as Health Minister it's good for their health. Too many people were reporting that they weren't filling the scripts their doctor had said was important for their health because they couldn't afford it. The 4 measures we put in place in our last term already saved people about $1.5 billion at the pharmacy counter. The measure we passed last night in the parliament will add another $200 million every year to those savings. As I said, good relief for household budgets, but really good for people's health as well, maximising the chance that they're taking the medicines their doctor has recommended they take.
 
STEFANOVIC: Alright, we've got to run. Always good to talk to you, Mark. Thanks for your time. Appreciate it.