TV interview with Minister Butler, Sunrise - 16 January 2026

MONIQUE WRIGHT, HOST: The Government’s attempt to introduce new hate speech reforms in Parliament next week may stall with both the Coalition and the Greens unlikely to support the bill in its current form, denying Labor of crucial support it needs to pass the legislation. Both the Opposition and Greens say more time is needed to consider the laws with the Greens wanting reform extended to include other forms of hate including Islamophobia and homophobia.
 
For their take, let's bring in Health Minister Mark Butler and Shadow Communications Minister Melissa McIntosh. Morning to you both. Melissa, let's start with you. Look, the Greens do seem very willing to negotiate here. Does the Coalition risk being cut off completely from this legislation? Because the Government just needs one of you, either the Coalition or the Greens.
 
MELISSA MCINTOSH, SHADOW COMMUNICATIONS MINISTER: Well, that's right, the Government does have the numbers. But we have to remember why we're doing this. In December, 15 people were killed in our country's worst terrorist attack. And this was an attack on our Jewish Australians and an attack on all Australians. So this is really important law. It is complex. There's around 500 pages and we have had very little time to go through it. So with new changes to law, we have to think about the unintended consequences of this particular piece of legislation. The Coalition does want to work with the Government. I think that is really important to get this right. But we've had little time when it comes to public consultation. The committee process, which is part of the process of Parliament, is just wrapping up and we're going to Parliament next week. So, you know, from that perspective, I think it would be the best outcome if the Coalition and the Government could work together.
 
WRIGHT: Yeah, Ok. How long do you need, exactly?
 
MCINTOSH: Well, how long is a piece of string when it's complex legislation?
 
WRIGHT: Just to tell Australia and to tell Mark now, how long would the Coalition like to look at this legislation? Because you were pushing for it in a huge way all the way leading up to Christmas and beyond.
 
MCINTOSH: Yeah. Well, more than a couple of days would be good when it's very complex and it's about a very important issue. And just looking at it, the Coalition's doing the best it can with what we've got and we have concerns. So I think we need time to address those concerns and work with the Government to get this right for the Australian people so this attack never happens again in our country.
 
WRIGHT: Ok, Mark, is that fair enough? They need more time?
 
MARK BUTLER, MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGEING, MINISTER FOR DISABILITY AND THE NDIS: It's good to hear some spirit of constructive agreement from Melissa, but yesterday the opposition leader said that the bill we'd presented was unsalvageable. Let's remember, Sussan Ley said before Christmas, Parliament needed to come back before Christmas and pass this legislation, but now says the process is too rushed. I mean, how can you reconcile those two things? From the different factions of the Coalition, we've heard every imaginable objection to the legislation we put out at the beginning of this week, but not a single constructive suggestion. We've received no amendments from the Coalition in spite of asking for them. Sussan Ley said yesterday, next week she's going to present an alternative bill, but no one's seen it. I don't know whether Melissa has seen it, but we haven't seen it. The media haven't seen it. Jewish groups haven't seen it. But apparently there's an alternative proposition that Sussan Ley is keeping secret.
 
It is very hard to work with a Coalition that doesn't want to sit down and put their constructive suggestions. The Prime Minister said we're open to amendments. We know this is hard stuff. These are hard laws to draft properly. If they were easy, governments in the past would have done it. Instead, we've seen the hate preachers continue to be able to preach their hate because legal attempt after legal attempt by governments of both political persuasions haven't been able to shut them down.
 
WRIGHT: Yeah.
 
BUTLER: This is tough, but we need a more constructive approach. Melissa just gave one, but her leader yesterday said this was unsalvageable, apparently. I'll tell you what will be unsalvageable, the Coalition's credibility, if having demanded we do this before Christmas, simply next week they sit in and block.
 
WRIGHT: Ok, just before we move on, the Greens have put forward their amendments that they would like. Namely, they would like it to include Islamophobia and homophobia. So are you more likely to get to an agreement with the Greens than the Coalition?
 
BUTLER: The Greens at least appear willing to negotiate. And this really should be legislation dealt with between the two alternative parties of Government, which is why Sussan Ley's comments yesterday were so disappointing. But I've said earlier in this week that unapologetically, this legislation is designed to deal with anti-Semitic hatred, the sort of hatred that drove that horrific terror attack that Melissa talked about a little over one month ago.
 
Now, we're open to constructive discussions about extending these arrangements potentially to other hatred in the future because at the end of the day, targeted hatred is targeted hatred. But this bill has been designed to deal with that antisemitic hatred that drove the terror attack at Bondi.
 
WRIGHT: Ok, moving on to another topic now. Analysis has revealed that new rules for family reunion flights may do little to curb MP travel expenses after facing heat last month. The Prime Minister said all family flights must be economy class and only to and from an MP's electorate in Canberra or an event where they were invited in MP's official capacity. The Australian newspaper has crunched the numbers and has found just eight per cent of taxpayer-funded flights since last year's election would fall outside of the new rules. Melissa, the country was furious when these travel perks were exposed on both sides of politics. What do you think here? Do the new rules go far enough? It's a bit of a slippery slope to get into this, isn't it?
 
MCINTOSH: Well, we've got to remember why this started. It was when my opposite, the Minister for Communications, left her post during a Triple Zero crisis and went to New York and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, taxpayers' money, had a dinner for a thousand dollars, fell asleep at that dinner. And then it came to light that she did attend many events across the country. And that's where Australians said Ok, enough is enough, and there is an investigation by the Independent Parliamentary Expenses Authority into her expenses. I don't believe there's been a resolution on that. Another minister paid back her expenses when this same investigation showed that she did not travel appropriately with her family.
 
So we all want, you know, politicians to be able to spend time with family members, but there is an expectation by Australians that is done in a way that is appropriate, but I don't know that the Prime Minister's new rules really change anything at all. It is up to him to show leadership on this and ensure that his ministers are doing the right thing.
 
WRIGHT: Yeah. Well, just on that, Mark, the paper says that Anika Wells was at the centre of the saga, as Melissa's just said. 73 of her 75 flights since 2022 would still be allowed. So have the rules really changed enough? Does this pass the proverbial pub test, these new rules?
 
BUTLER: The Prime Minister designed some new draft rules seeking to strike a balance essentially between the reasonable use of taxpayer funds, which obviously everyone wants to see happen, but also trying to support partners and children in relationships where MPs and Senators might spend as much as 150 or 200 nights away every single year. At the end of the day, this is a matter for the Independent Remuneration Tribunal to finalise. The Prime Minister has sent those suggestions off to that tribunal. I'm not aware that the Opposition has put any alternative ideas about what these new rules might look like, and so we await that tribunal decision.
 
WRIGHT: Alright. Mark Butler, Melissa McIntosh, we appreciate your insights and time this morning. Thank you.
 
MCINTOSH: Thank you.