KARL STEFANOVIC, HOST: Well, more now on Labor's plan to divert moderately autistic children off the NDIS to rein in costs. To discuss, Minister for Health and Disability, Mark Butler joins me now live in Melbourne. Mark, good morning to you. Thanks for your time this morning. Look, I get the need to reel in the NDIS, but you've greatly upset a lot of really stressed-uut parents this morning.
MARK BUTLER, MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGEING, MINISTER FOR DISABILITY AND THE NDIS: Yeah, and I want to reassure parents that although the message I gave last- at yesterday's Press Club speech will be hard for many of them to hear, I'm absolutely determined to build a system that supports them supporting their kids to thrive. I mean, unfortunately the NDIS has been the only port in the storm for them. All of those systems we had for years or decades to support parents whose kids weren't hitting milestones were largely deconstructed, and all the money was put into the NDIS. But the NDIS is not the right fit for them. That is a scheme for permanent and significant disability. I'm going to make sure that everyone who is on the NDIS now remains on it, subject to the usual arrangements. But over the next couple of years, we'll introduce a new scheme for Thriving Kids that will support those kids coming through those ages and their parents in the way that, frankly, they should be.
STEFANOVIC: It's a tough message, autism of any kind isn't a strong enough disability. It's a really hard sell, especially if you're a parent who's got a child who has autism. How are you going to define the nuance of autism into mild and moderate for-therapy purposes? I would have thought that could lead to even more bureaucracy.
BUTLER: Yeah, we've got to be very clear about that. Ultimately, it's a clinical question. But there's no debate that there will be some people for whom autism is a permanent, significant disability. And, of course, they will be on the NDIS as they should be. That's what the scheme was built for, but for children with mild to moderate autism or mild to moderate levels of developmental delay, a different system is needed. You see that from the reaction from all of the experts in this area in child development, in paediatrics, they're confident that a system in primary care and infant and maternal health that's located in our childcare centres and schools, that's the sort of broad-based mainstream system that a broad-based mainstream issue like this requires.
STEFANOVIC: Okay. So, the programs you have in mind, have they had any evidence of long-term success?
BUTLER: Well, they do. I talked about a couple of them yesterday. They were only examples. I want to sit down with states and with service providers and with parents to design this in more detail. But we know that there are schemes out there that work, that have a proven record if they intervene early enough in getting that developmental delay back on track or if there is mild to moderate levels of autism, ensuring that there are systems around that child to support them.
STEFANOVIC: The problem is that some parents are saying this morning that there is no long-term success story here with some of those programs. Some parents are even saying that these programs are dangerous and experimental.
BUTLER: Yeah, and this is a discussion we're going to have. I get that parents are feeling unsure after the announcement I had made yesterday. I want to reassure them that we're not going to leave them high and dry. We're going to make sure that there is a scheme well designed that gives them confidence that we're going to do everything we can to support their kids to thrive, and there'll be no gap between the stools. I'm not going to have people leaving the NDIS without a system in place to support them. If they're on the NDIS now or into the future before this system starts, they will stay on the NDIS.
STEFANOVIC: It sounds easy the way you're saying it, but I'm sure there's going to be a lot of work done to get to that point where everyone's happy.
BUTLER: Well, this is hard, Karl. This is hard, but it's really important to get this NDIS back on track.
STEFANOVIC: Yeah, I get it. It's also super hard if you have a kid with autism. So, what do you- let's move on.
BUTLER: Completely understand that.
STEFANOVIC: What are you going to do about Monash IVF? Are you going to muscle in there?
BUTLER: Well, look, this has been incredibly distressing for the many parents who have IVF babies. I have a beautiful IVF baby. And you place all of your confidence in these companies to do the right thing. There's 20,000 IVF births now every year. This is a mainstream issue, and I want to make sure that everyone understands what happened here and what is being done to ensure it doesn't happen again. I just don't buy the privacy argument that the company's coming up with. You can always redact the private details of anyone involved, but we need to get to the bottom of what happened and get confidence back into parents' lives that it's not going to happen again. We've got a good discussion happening with health ministers to introduce a system of independent registration and accreditation. The industry's been self-regulating. I don't think that's good enough. And also whether or not we lift this to a national scheme of regulation instead of the different state-based schemes that have been in place now for decades.
STEFANOVIC: Yeah, it's awful what's happened. Horrendous. It shouldn't happen again. Good to talk to you, Mark. Thanks for your time. Appreciate it.