Television interview with Minister Butler, Sunrise - 27 February, 2026

NATALIE BARR, HOST: The Sydney doctor who is advocating for 34 Australian ISIS brides and children to return to this country says the 11 women would be prepared to go to jail if it meant getting their kids out of Syria and safe in Australia. Dr Jamal Riffey said they are happy to go through the justice system while also telling Seven News that while the children don't pose any risk now, they might if they are left to stay in the Syrian camps. For more, we are joined by Health Minister Mark Butler and Deputy Opposition Leader Jane Hume.
 
Mark, we'll go to you first. This has been a big issue for two weeks now. We have asked the Home Affairs Minister every day this week to come on the show and answer these questions. Monday, he said no. Tuesday, no. Wednesday, no. Thursday, no. Why is Tony Burke refusing to answer the questions that the Australian people are asking?
 
MARK BUTLER, MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGEING, MINISTER FOR DISABILITY AND THE NDIS: A range of us have been out in the media stating very clearly, I'm here this morning, Nat, to help state the position very clearly. It hasn't changed over those couple of weeks we've been talking about this. We are not going to provide taxpayer resources to help these women come back to Australia. They took the decision, along with their husbands, their partners at the time, to leave this country and to travel to Syria and Iraq and support one of the most awful death cults we've seen in decades. We're not going to use taxpayer resources to go and help them to come home.
 
BARR: We're now hearing that two children whose mothers are separate from this group, categorised as extremists, could be eligible for Australian citizenship because their fathers are Australian. Is that right?
 
BUTLER: I had a quick read of that story this morning, Nat. I'm not aware of the facts, and the former immigration official who was featured there went through some of the steps that would be required for a child of a father who is potentially deceased and where the body's not available to be tested for DNA, for example. All of those steps are obviously significant legal steps. But other than that, Nat, I can't help you there. That's a story in the papers this morning. We’ve not -
 
BARR: Would the Home Affairs Minister be able to help us?
 
BUTLER: I don't know the answer to that question, Nat. This is a story that's just appeared over the last several hours in the newspapers. We've not been able, certainly, I've not been able to verify it. But the position that the former immigration official steps out there, I think, is the right one as a matter of law.
 
BARR: I think this is the problem, that we've been asking the Home Affairs Minister for many, many days, and he's done other interviews and he hasn't come on the show, and there's so many questions. Australians are asking us every day about this. They're very, very concerned about these ISIS brides. Jane, what do you think? Because we are getting questions every day and it's very hard to get answers. We're going to professors at universities to try and eke out the answers.
 
SENATOR JANE HUME: This is the problem. Australians rightly expect and deserve to be kept safe. That's the first responsibility of any government, and this is what this government is failing to do by making sure that these women and their children stay away from our shores for as long as possible while they potentially pose a risk. That's why the Coalition have come out and said that it should be a criminal offence for third parties to assist people to come back to Australia. Now, the government can't simply wash its hands of this problem. It has to have full oversight of these women and these children and their journey back to Australia, because otherwise the community could potentially be at risk. And that's why Australians are rightly upset by this. There's questions that simply have not been answered.
 
BARR: Okay, let's move on. Now, Treasury is conducting modelling on a potential limit to negative gearing, capping the amount of investment properties that can be negatively geared to just two. We know it's not policy yet. We know it's being talked about at the moment. Mark, Labor does have a bit of a troubled history with negative gearing. Bill Shorten would probably be able to talk on that. How serious are these considerations?
 
BUTLER: You know Nat, that as we head into the 10 weeks leading into the budget, there is going to be a veritable tsunami of articles speculating about what we might or might not be considering. We've been very clear about our tax policies. We've been clear about our housing policies as well, trying to help young people, particularly into first home ownership. But we've also been clear that we think there is an issue around young Australians getting a fair break, breaking into the housing system. It's been such a part of our social fabric for so many decades, and we've been clear we're thinking about options to give them a better go, a fairer go in the housing market. But look, there'll be these articles, many of these options, some of which departments might be modelling up or not, I don't know. I know my department models a whole range of options leading into the budget that never see the light of day. But we can't comment on every idle piece of speculation we see in the media as we do the hard work of preparing a budget that is in the interests of Australians, including young Australians.
 
BARR: Jane, would limiting negative gearing to two properties be fair, and banking the savings and doing something better with it?
 
HUME: Well, here's the deal; why is it that every single problem that Australia faces today can be solved by Labor through taxing it? This is ridiculous. If you tax something, you get less of it. It's pretty clear. If I'm a landlord and you tax me more, I'm going to push the rents up. Now, rents are one of the fastest growing areas of inflation in Australia. They've gone up by around 22 per cent. If you want rents to go up, increase negative gearing or take away negative gearing opportunities from landlords.
 
BARR: But, or you could say that investors won't buy as many properties and those properties might be freer for younger people to buy.
 
HUME: Wouldn't it be better to increase supply? We all know that supply is the problem in housing. It's not how much you're taxed. And all of this idea of flying kites around this tax and that tax, this is just Labor paving the way to increase taxes on Australians, not solve the problem at its core, which is to increase supply. This government has spent more money than any other ostensibly building homes, but in fact it's building fewer homes than the previous Coalition government, about 30,000 fewer homes every single year. The problem is supply, it's not tax.
 
BARR: Okay, and as Mark Butler says, it's not a plan yet. We will find out soon. Thank you very much.