Television interview with Minister Butler, Sunrise – 15 August 2025

NATALIE BARR, HOST: The US Ambassador to Israel has detailed America's criticism of Australia's decision to recognise a Palestinian state. Ambassador Mike Huckabee spoke to the ABC last night.
 
[Excerpt]
 
MIKE HUCKABEE, US AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL: We've discussed it at the State Department level with the Secretary. There's an enormous level of disappointment and some disgust. As Israel's closest partner, we would have expected that there would have been some heads up. There wasn't. This was done unilaterally. That was a disappointment.
 
[End of excerpt]
 
BARR: He also said the timing of Australia's announcement is hurtful to any prospect of negotiating settlement in in Gaza with Hamas. For more, we're joined by Health Minister Mark Butler and Liberal Senator Jane Hume. Good morning.
 
Mark, when a diplomat, a senior diplomat from one of our closest allies says they are disappointed and in fact disgusted with one of our decisions, is our relationship in jeopardy?
 
MARK BUTLER, MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGEING, MINISTER FOR DISABILITY AND THE NDIS: We are convinced this is the right decision at the right time to help build momentum to breaking this cycle of violence. There was a discussion between our Foreign Minister Penny Wong and Secretary of State Rubio before the announcement of our decision. There's a readout from the State Department about that conversation. It wasn't just about the situation in Israel and Gaza, but also importantly about the main focus of our relationship, which of course is security and stability in our own region. I think we understand that the Americans might take a different position on this right now, given the role they play in the region and the relationship they have with Israel. But the contribution we're making is to a process that you'll see the UK, Canada, France and many others making as well -
 
BARR: They’ve both given notice.
 
BUTLER: And it's based on very clear commitments from the Arab League and the Palestinian Authority that we think do present an opportunity for real momentum over the course of coming weeks leading into the United Nations meeting in September.
 
BARR: But just on that fact of us telling the Americans, you've got America's guy in Israel saying, as Israel's closest partner, we would have expected that there would have been some heads up. There wasn't. It happened unilaterally. So, do you think that maybe Penny Wong, who apparently told the US Secretary of State, do you reckon the US Secretary of State didn't pass it on to their guy in Israel or someone's not quite telling the whole story here?
 
BUTLER: The State Department is pretty disciplined at publishing a readout about conversations like the one that Minister Wong had with the Secretary of State. That was published very soon after the phone conversation. It gives a sense of the conversation, which as I said was not just about the situation in Israel and Gaza, but importantly about our own region, which at the end of the day is the major focus of the relationship we have with our most important security partner, the Indo-Pacific security instability here.
 
I'm not quite sure why the Ambassador to Israel says that. There was a conversation. The readout of the conversation was published by the State Department before the Prime Minister and Minister Wong stood up.
 
BARR: So maybe Mike Huckabee is not reading his documents, is that what you're saying?
 
BUTLER: At the end of the day this is the Ambassador to Israel, his job is to manage the relationship between America and Israel, not the Ambassador to Australia. His job is to manage the relationship between the US and Australia.
 
BARR: But he's getting stuck into us now. So, we're on the end of this, so you would want us to sort it out. Does our government, do you guys now go to America and sort of, you know, work out why he's going public and criticising us as a nation?
 
BUTLER: We're convinced we've made the right decision. It wasn't one taken lightly. It was one taken after weeks and weeks of consideration, particularly by the Prime Minister and Minister Wong. It follows a decision in similar terms by like-minded countries like the UK, Canada and France. Very much is predicated on conditions that were outlined really for the first time in this eight-decade conflict by the Arab League and by the Palestinian Authority. The right for Israel to exist in peace, demilitarisation of a Palestinian State, no role for Hamas. These are really important conditions that I think do build momentum for a change in what has been an eight-decade long conflict.
 
BARR: Jane, do you think is a simple case of the US Ambassador to Israel not reading the documents he should have read?
 
SENATOR JANE HUME: Nat, I'm here in Adelaide today at the Australian America Leadership Dialogue, and there's Liberals and Labor here, there's Democrats and Republicans, and it does seem to be quite universal that this decision by the Labor Government has bewildered the Americans. That they have essentially departed from years of a strong alliance between Israel and America and Australia to make this decision unilaterally, that it hasn't helped create the grounds for a two-states dilution, that there is no condition to release the hostages, that it has in fact put the negotiations with Hamas in jeopardy. This is a terrible diplomatic decision by the Labor Government, by Anthony Albanese. It's not a coup, quite the opposite. We think that this is going to set back the peace process by weeks, potentially months, maybe even years.
 
BARR: Okay, moving on now to something that's happening back home. The Attorney-General will today meet with her state counterparts to finally act on implementing nationalised reform to the working with children check system after shock loopholes were uncovered when horrific child abuse allegations surfaced in Victoria. Mark, can Australians have confidence that after this meeting today, someone who was refused a check in one state will be banned from getting approval in another state? Something that was recommended, mind you, seven years ago in 2018 when a Royal Commission was handed down its recommendations.
 
BUTLER: Minister Clare has been pretty clear and upfront with the Australian people that all government, state and federal of both political parties should have been acting more quickly after that 2018 recommendation. The Attorney General will meet today to set up a national system so if you're banned in one state you're banned in all, and it will be dynamic as well so it will be able to be regularly updated in real time if there is a change to criminal history.
 
There is a whole lot of work going on. Last week we passed laws in the Parliament to take funding from centres that weren't up to scratch. Next week the education ministers will be meeting again, and they'll look at things like CCTV in childcare centres. Next month, the ban on the use of personal phones in childcare centres will take effect as well. I think all governments are seized of the absolute urgency to take action here. There will be an acceleration at the meeting of the Attorneys General today to make sure that those checks are national, they're mutually recognised across state boundaries, and they're kept up to date with any change in someone's criminal history.
 
BARR: Yep, and it's good that this is being done. Jane, it was a Coalition Government that the Royal Commission report was handed to. Nothing was done. I think all sides are saying, yep, we should have acted sooner, but you would agree, I guess, that this is being done now?
 
HUME: We do agree that this is the right approach to get a nationally uniform approach to working with children checks, that mutual recognition, the same standards across each state. This is a good idea. This is something that we've been calling for some time. I think it'll be cold comfort to those families, particularly those in Victoria -
 
BARR: Well, you could have done it when it was handed to you.
 
HUME: - Particularly, those in Victoria that have seen such terrible abuses inflicted upon their children and the risks their children have been exposed to. This is something the Coalition's been calling for now for some time. Probably could have been done with a little bit more urgency.
 
BARR: Well, it could have been done when it was handed to Malcolm Turnbull all those years ago, but we'll leave it there. Thank you. See you next week.
 
HUME: It should have been done with more urgency. You're absolutely right, Nat.