Television interview with Minister Butler, ABC 7:30 – 20 August 2025

SARAH FERGUSON, HOST: Health Minister Mark Butler announced a major change to the NDIS today, in an effort to reign in the costs of the scheme that were $42 billion last year and forecast to keep growing. Children with autism or development delays make up 44 per cent of the scheme. Beginning in mid-2027, many of those children will now be diverted to a new programme called Thriving Kids. I spoke to the Health Minister earlier.
 
Mark Butler, welcome to 7.30.
 
MARK BUTLER, MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGEING, MINISTER FOR DISABILITY AND THE NDIS: Thank you Sarah.
 
FERGUSON: In making this announcement today, you said that the NDIS was in danger of losing its social license. Can you explain that?
 
BUTLER: For a scheme that doesn’t touch as many Australians, for example, as Medicare and aged care, you do need social license. Taxpayers need to have confidence that they’re getting value for the money they’re investing the scheme, and at the moment that license is very strong. People do recognise that the NDIS has transformed the lives of people living with disability. But they also say, through research, that it’s costing too much; they’re concerned about dodgy providers; and as many as six in ten say the NDIS is broken. That is a concern to me, that the social license that is so important to underpin this terrific scheme is at risk of slipping away if taxpayers don’t have confidence that we’re doing the right thing to get it back on track.
 
FERGUSON: You're proposing diverting children with mild to moderate autism or developmental delays away from the NDIS. So how will it work?
 
BUTLER: The number of people on the NDIS is largely what we projected a decade ago. People with intellectual disabilities, cerebral palsy, and those range of disabilities. With one exception, and that is kids with developmental delay and autism, particularly at mild to moderate levels. Not levels that are likely to be permanently disabling, which after all, is the cornerstone of the NDIS. Literally, tens and tens of thousands of young kids are on this scheme that was set up for permanent disability. That's largely because there's no alternative. As I said today, it's really been the only port in a storm for parents who are worried about their kid not hitting milestones. We should have an alternative system in place for those parents and for those kids, and that's what I committed to building today - a system to support those children to thrive. I think most of your viewers would be alarmed to know that one in six, grade 2 boys are on the NDIS. In some parts of the country, it's as high as one in four, grade 2 boys are on the NDIS. We've got to do better than that, because the scheme was not intended to cover those kids.
 
FERGUSON: Now, obviously what those families, what those parents have done, is go on to the NDIS because they can't get support elsewhere. So what are you creating? What are you doing to enable those parents to find support outside of the NDIS?
 
BUTLER: We need to leverage those existing systems. The infant and maternal health systems that states run, the primary care systems that we fund through Medicare. Supports in community health centres that used to exist long before the NDIS, but, frankly, had been defunded to a degree in order to pay for the National Disability Insurance Scheme. So rebuilding, refocusing those mainstream broad-based supports that have existed for long before the NDIS. That's the response that you should have for a mainstream, broad-based issue, and that is that a lot of kids do have developmental delay and autism issues that do need support to help them thrive. The only place that they can get right now is the NDIS, and that's not the right fit for them.
 
FERGUSON: Now, you were working on an agreement with the states to provide exactly that. I think they were going to be foundational supports. Does that mean that that is over now and you're starting again?
 
BUTLER: No, this is that work. I've given it much more shape, I think, by describing what it means for parents. That is support to help their kids thrive, right through the life course from the time they're born, into the time they get into formal schooling. What I heard from states is that they didn't think that the Commonwealth was leaning in enough, so I've said, we want to lead this process. We are going to lean in. They also said that they were concerned that funding wasn't committed beyond five years. So I've made the commitment today on behalf of the Commonwealth to fund this on an ongoing basis. I did also hear, though, from the sector, from parents, from providers, they didn't want to see eight different systems built up in every single state and territory. They want something that is nationally consistent across the country, and that's what I think is sensible as well.
 
FERGUSON: So you've committed some money. What about the states? Are they pulling their weight equally with the Commonwealth in setting up this new system?
 
BUTLER: At the National Cabinet meeting at the end of 2023, all of the jurisdictions agreed we would set up systems to support this cohort, as well as adults with serious psychosocial disability. Both of us committed $5 billion - so $5 billion from the Commonwealth, $5 billion collectively from states and territories. It's time to actually put our money where the mouth is and get this in an operational system to support those kids thriving.
 
FERGUSON: Now, what does it mean for parents who, as they understand it now, in July 2027, they will be diverted away from the NDIS. You get a transition period. But does that mean that those parents will have their funding cut? Can you reassure them that the services will be ready?
 
BUTLER: I've been very clear - we're not going to start diversion from the NDIS before there is that strong robust system to support kids thriving. That's why there's about a 2-year run up to this. We'll start rolling out the services next year. They will require some time to roll out fully, to give parents confidence that they're going to get the supports that they need and want to help their kids thrive. It's quite a run up. If kids are on the NDIS at that time, they're entitled to remain on it, they'll be subject to the usual rules of the NDIS. But I just don't think in the long-term, this is the right scheme for kids with mild to moderate developmental delay or autism. Parents really need - and their children - need a mainstream, broad-based system of supports available in a whole range of settings that they're at very regularly to help their kids thrive, and that's what I committed to delivering today.
 
FERGUSON: And you can absolutely guarantee that those services will be in place for those families?
 
BUTLER: Absolutely. I'm very clear, we're not going it leave a gap between two stools for our precious children. We've only really given parents one option for the last several years, the one port in the storm has been the NDIS. I think there should be another option. But I'm going to make sure that option is fully up and running before we start diversion from the NDIS. That's the only right thing to do.
 
FERGUSON: I just want to come back to the very difficult issue of fraud in the NDIS. The stories have obviously been, frankly, repulsive, about people taking advantage of this generous system. Are you winning the battle with those shonks and fraudsters taking advantage of the NDIS?
 
BUTLER: We had to start from scratch. The National Audit Office said before 2024, so the scheme had been running for over a decade, there was effectively no real control on fraud and non-compliance within the NDIS. So, we've had to build it up from scratch. Bill Shorten, to his credit, started that work, and already we've had hundreds of investigations, search warrants and we are starting to crack down. But we’ve got 260,000 service providers in this scheme, only 16,000 of whom are registered. We’ve precious little line of sight about who they are, what they're doing, what their qualifications are. We need more work on fraud, and we've committed to that again today. But we also, frankly, need a more robust system of provider registration. The sort of which you see in aged care, in veterans' care, in the health system, and frankly, should exist in the NDIS as well.
 
FERGUSON: Alright. Well, look forward to seeing how that goes. Mark Butler, thank you very much indeed for joining us.
 
BUTLER: Thanks, Sarah.