KYLIE MORRIS, HOST: Now, if you've had trouble finding a bulk billing doctor in your area, new data out today may not come as a surprise to you. It shows a 15 per cent drop in bulk billing rates over the past 2 years. Nationally, for new adult patients without a concession card, 4 out of 5 GPs will charge a gap fee and that out-of-pocket cost has gone up, too. The data was collected in a survey of nearly 7,000 clinics by online GP directory, Cleanbill. Joining me to discuss this is Health Minister Mark Butler. Mark, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.
MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGED CARE, MARK BUTLER: Thanks very much, Kylie.
MORRIS: Now you've taken issue, I know, with this survey before because you say it doesn't reflect bulk billing for children and concession cardholders, but do you accept that it corresponds with a lot of people's experience really, when it comes down to trying to find a doctor that will bulk bill?
BUTLER: I don't think there's anyone who's talked more about the decline in bulk billing over recent years than I have, and there's no government that's invested more to try and turn out or turn that around than our government has. I have been cautious about this particular report, which a number of media organisations have picked up today, because essentially, it's a ring around of general practices to ask them whether or not they bulk bill every single person that comes through their front door for every single consult, whether it's Gina Rinehart or an aged pensioner. What we've tried to do over the last couple of years is provide very significant transparency around what's actually happening for GP consults out there. Regularly we report the number of GP visits that are bulk billed across the country, in every single state and territory, and by federal electorate as well and that shows that there's no doubt there was a free fall in bulk billing that we inherited when we came to government. That's the language the College of GPs used to describe what was happening. They also said that general practice was at a tipping point, and if there wasn't further investment, things would continue to slide. That's why we put in place the tripling of the bulk billing incentive in 2023. And since then, that free fall has been arrested. Last year we saw an increase in bulk billing rates in every single state and territory. Almost 6 million additional free visits to the doctor. Now that by no means that we're out of the woods - it's not still difficult to find a bulk billing doctor and there's still more to do. But what we have done is making a meaningful difference.
MORRIS: Minister, though we have seen a decline in the rate of bulk billing GPs. And I take your point that this may have been a situation that was inherited, but there is an ongoing decline and an increase in the average out-of-pocket cost, despite the introduction of those bulk billing incentives which you refer to, shouldn't it have been arrested more effectively by now? I mean, it should have been helping clinics reduce fees overall, surely by now?
BUTLER: There's not a decline in the percentage of visits to the doctor that are bulk billed. As I said, that number was in freefall the year before last. That's why we invested record amounts to turn it around and last year, in every single state and territory, the percentage of visits to the doctor that were bulk billed went up. It went up most significantly in some of the markets I was most worried about, like Tasmania, which had very slow rates of bulk billing. But it is right that the number of general practices that are bulk billing absolutely everyone that comes through their front door has declined. That's why I've said over the last few weeks, we know there's more we need to do. What we have done is making a meaningful difference, but there is more we need to do to keep climbing those rates of bulk billing. I want to see more free Medicare services than there are now. I want to see more improvements to deliver a stronger Medicare for the future.
MORRIS: Minister, can we talk figures, what are the targets that where should the proportion be? I mean, New South Wales has the highest proportion of bulk billing clinics. It's sitting around only 34 per cent. It's below 10 per cent of clinics in the territory the Northern Territory, the Act, WA and South Australia. In Tasmania, according to this survey, there are no bulk billing clinics left in the state. So what should the proportion be? What are you aiming for? I realise you're aiming for an improvement, but where should it sit?
BUTLER: Kylie I would be careful about that description. To say there's no bulk billing clinics in Tasmania doesn't reflect the fact that more than 70 per cent of visits to the doctor in Tasmania are bulk billed, and that number has increased by 5 per cent since we made those investments. Now I'd like to see it higher than 70 per cent, and I'd particularly like to see some cohorts in the population who haven't received the benefit of the incentives we put in place the year before last benefit as well. That's why Australians can be very confident that, of course, a Labor government will take to an election further ideas to strengthen Medicare. We have no higher priority than a strong Medicare for all Australians. That's why we're making no secret of the fact, and no apology for the fact that there will be the clearest possible choice on Medicare at the next election, between our agenda and the agenda of someone like Peter Dutton, with his record on Medicare.
MORRIS: Minister, let's talk about the next election then. Opposition Leader Peter Dutton yesterday launched the Coalition's unofficial election campaign in Melbourne. Recent resolved polling showed the Victorian Liberals up 5 per cent since the last federal election. What is Labor doing to protect its ground in Victoria?
BUTLER: We're delivering a whole range of cost-of-living measures that again Peter Dutton said he didn't support this morning. I've seen on TVs Peter Dutton again saying he considers that the relief we've put in place for all Australian households in the energy bills are simply “sugar hits”. Or yesterday he described them as “Panadol”. Yesterday's speech was 38 minutes of empty rhetoric, not a single policy or promise that would help Australian households. It's one thing to oppose every single cost-of-living measure that we've tried to put in place, whether it's on energy bills, cheaper medicine or cheaper childcare. But it's another thing in your signature campaign speech to offer not a single policy to help Australian households. It reflects this extraordinary arrogance that Peter Dutton thinks he can skate to victory at the upcoming election, simply on rhetoric and sledging.
MORRIS: Assistant Treasurer Stephen Jones yesterday said Medicare will not be safe under a Coalition government. Is that a claim you'd like to expand on?
BUTLER: Just look at Peter Dutton's record. He had 6 years as the Shadow Health Minister to think about what he would do if he was appointed health minister. This was not a kneejerk reaction in the 2014 Budget. He says that he inherited bulk billing rates of 84 per cent. I've seen him say that this morning and he did from the former Labor government. What he doesn't remind Australians, though, is he then said that there were “too many free Medicare services”. I said this morning to you, Kylie, I want to see more free Medicare services. He said as Health Minister, he thought there were too many free Medicare services. And then in his first budget, he tried to abolish bulk billing altogether. When he failed to do that, because he couldn't get it through the Senate, he froze the Medicare rebate. That freeze lasted for 6 long years, effectively freezing the income of Australia's doctors, which, of course, is the reason why bulk billing was in freefall when we came to government. Not only did he do that, he tried to impose a fee every time Australians went to the emergency department, he tried to jack up the price of medicines. We're not speculating here. We're looking at Peter Dutton's record as health minister, a record that Australia's doctors described as the worst health minister in the history of Medicare.
MORRIS: Minister on anti-Semitism, counter-terrorism police have been called in to investigate perpetrators who tried to set fire to a Sydney synagogue. This follows the firebombing of a Melbourne synagogue last year, and anti-Israel graffiti being sprayed on cars and homes. Is the government worried this situation will worsen before it improves?
BUTLER: I think Chris Minns, the New South Wales Premier,has described this as an escalation in anti-Semitic attacks in New South Wales. We've seen them in Victoria as well, and I've said that I'm horrified, I'm distressed. All of us are at the rate of anti-Semitism that we've seen since the October 7th acts of terrorism against Israel. They are extraordinary and they are exceptional. It must be said, no other community in Australia has to secure their children at school behind high razor wire fences with security around the clock. No other nursing homes are experiencing the level of threats and violence that I know Jewish nursing homes have been experiencing since the October 7th atrocities. And we see these regular attacks now on places of worship, of all places. I think all of us are horrified and deeply distressed by this. We're of course, ready to do everything we can to support the states, including New South Wales, in their policing efforts to bring these people to justice. They must be brought to justice. We've changed laws to criminalise the use of Nazi hate symbols, which we hope will also bolster the efforts of police agencies and of course, our agencies like the AFP, the Federal Police and others are working very closely with agencies like New South Wales Police Minister.
MORRIS: Minister, just finally, the Israel government spokesperson, David Mencer, last week said Australia's relationship with Israel was plagued by anti-Israel sentiment. Until recently. He was referencing that news that at that point, Mark Dreyfus, your colleague, the Attorney General, would be heading to Israel soon. Does your government need to do more to strengthen, to overtly, if you like, strengthen and advertise its ties with Israel?
BUTLER: Mark Dreyfus’ visit will of course be a very significant visit. The Foreign Minister visited Israel after the October 7th attacks as well, and there are regular dialogues between our government and the Israeli government, as there always has been. This is a close relationship it has been since Australia supported the creation of the State of Israel, something I'm so proud of still and will always be. We speak frankly with governments of Israel, of all political persuasions. That's always been a hallmark of a close relationship between allies, democratic allies. And I'm sure that will continue in the future.
MORRIS: Health Minister Mark Butler, thanks so much for joining us on Radio National Breakfast.
BUTLER: Thanks, Kylie.
Media event date:
Date published:
Media type:
Transcript
Audience:
General public
Minister: