Radio interview with Minister Butler, ABC Radio National – 29 July 2025

SALLY SARA, HOST: Well, the Prime Minister Anthony Albanese's Medicare card and big promises worth billions to improve Australia's healthcare system were centrepieces of Labor's election campaign earlier this year. This week, the returned government is set to begin delivering on some of those pledges, starting with new legislation to cut the price of PBS medicines to $25. Joining me now in our Parliament House studio is Mark Butler, the Minister for Health and Ageing and Disability and the NDIS. So, Mark Butler, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.
 
MARK BUTLER, MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGEING, MINISTER FOR DISABILITY AND THE NDIS: Thanks so much.
 
SARA: Before we look at your portfolio, let's look at Gaza. Your Labor colleague, Ed Husic, has called for the Federal Government to recognise the state of Palestine. Do you support his call to recognise a Palestinian state now rather than later?
 
BUTLER: The Prime Minister laid out a number of conditions on the weekend about this question. Penny Wong made a very significant change on behalf of Australia last year, when she said that the Australian position to recognise Palestine would shift from being something we'd consider at the end of the peace process, a successful peace process, and potentially consider along the path of a peace process. That was a very significant change and then the Prime Minister over the weekend said that there obviously were a number of issues that we would be considering as a government on the question of recognition. For example, how do you make sure Hamas plays no role in a Palestinian state. What are the guarantees for Israeli security. But also, what is the structure of the state that we would be recognising. We'll do that at an appropriate time, and I think it was really important that the Prime Minister over the weekend outlined those issues.
 
SARA: Israel's two leading human organisations have released a joint report. They're now saying that the situation in Gaza is genocide. Does the Federal Government agree?
 
BUTLER: Again, I think the Prime Minister's statements over the last several days, the fact that Australia joined a couple of dozen at least of like-minded countries in really lifting our level of concern and demands on Israel to allow the resumption of aid into Gaza reflects the views of ordinary Australians who have been watching these images and are deeply, deeply distressed. The position there is indefensible. The humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza has reached absolutely unacceptable levels and change needs to happen quickly.
 
SARA: Is that genocide now?
 
BUTLER: That's a matter for others, not for the Health Minister. The Prime Minister could not have been clearer about Australia's position on this, and it's a position shared by many like-minded countries around the world.
 
SARA: Let's return to your portfolio now. This week, you're introducing legislation to cut the price of prescription medicines. How soon can Australians expect to pay less at the pharmacy?
 
BUTLER: They're already paying a lot less. We've had four waves of cheaper medicines that have delivered about $1.5 billion of savings to patients at the pharmacy. It's also delivered tens of millions fewer visits to the pharmacy through 60-day scripts, and pensioners are getting more of their scripts free of charge; 75 million additional free scripts. The reason why we go so hard on cheaper medicines is because it's not just good for the hip pocket, which it obviously is, but it's also good for your health. The more affordable medicines are, the more likely people are to fill the scripts that their doctors say is important for their health. When we came to government, the Bureau of Statistics said there were about a million Australians every year going without the scripts that their doctors had said was important because of costs. That's why we're legislating this week a fifth wave of cheaper medicines policies that will cut the maximum co-payment for general patients to just $25 a script. That will take effect from 1 January and take the script price back to where it was in 2004.
 
SARA: How do you police it?
 
BUTLER: It's very simple. Pharmacies apply the co-payment arrangements that are put in place. This is something that the Pharmacy Guild has been very supportive of. There's been no problem with us being able to implement the cheaper medicines measures we've already put in place, as I said, four waves of cheaper medicines policies. But there's more to do, and that's why we promised at the last election a fifth wave that will deliver even more savings to millions more patients.
 
SARA: One of those waves was regarding women's health, and particularly some of the treatments for menopause. For products like oestrogen gel, Estrogel, are they already supposed to be at the lower price, or is that going to take some more time?
 
BUTLER: They've been added to the PBS. As you know, Sally, we announced earlier this year that we'd put on to the PBS the first new menopause treatments for 20 years, the first new oral contraceptive pills for 30 years, the first new medicine for endometriosis for 30 years. They're now available at PBS prices rather than women having to pay above the odds for that. But all of those medicines will also have another cut to their price on 1 January, they'll go from what they are now at about $31 a script down to $25 a script from 1 January.
 
SARA: So they should be at $31 now?
 
BUTLER: They should be at $31 now. They've all been added to the PBS now. But again, they'll have that additional cut in price on 1 January.
 
SARA: Some pharmacies are selling those products for $38 - $41. Is there some other inbuilt cost there for dispensing?
 
BUTLER: I'm not aware of that. If that's the case, I'll certainly be looking into that. That's the first I've heard of reports of that. They should all be being sold at the PBS price.
 
SARA: But before we get to pharmaceuticals and the United States, we've had signals from the US President that Australia could be facing 15 to 20 per cent tariffs across the board. What's the Government's reaction to that?
 
BUTLER: That's only happened in the last hour or two, as I've been looking at my phone. This is the nature of some of these trade positions from the US Administration. I've found that the position in relation to pharmaceuticals has changed a lot over the last couple of weeks.
 
SARA: It sure has.
 
BUTLER: The nature, the timing, the scale of tariffs that might be imposed, not just on Australia, but on pharmaceutical imports to the US from anywhere in the world. We're trying to have a sense of what the US Administration is planning but continuing nonetheless to prosecute Australia's national interest and reinforce the importance of free trade between our two countries, which we've enjoyed since the Free Trade Agreement for more than 20 years. But we recognise this is a very significant challenge, including to pharmaceutical exports from Australia to the US, which by and large are blood and plasma products. We're doing everything we can to prosecute our interest as Australians and the interest of the hardworking workers and companies that underpin those exports.
 
SARA: Have you had any more clarification from the US on the issue of pharmaceuticals? Or is it still shifting around a bit?
 
BUTLER: It's still shifting around a bit. I think it's fair to say our officials are working hard to get a sense exactly of the nature and the timing of any tariffs on pharmaceutical exports, which as your listeners would know is a particular sector or industry that the US Administration has been focused on.
 
SARA: When we look at bulk billing, according to advice provided to you by your own department, almost a quarter of GP clinics are unlikely to take up the additional incentive to bulk bill 100 per cent of their patients. How do you then plan to get more clinics on board?
 
BUTLER: That figure was in our media release when we announced policy in February. I know the opposition has pretended this is some revelation. It was in the media release that they then supported half an hour after it was announced. We've been very clear about the modelling on this. We think we'll go from about a quarter of practices now being fully bulk billing to three quarters. The rest of the practices, so around 23 per cent of practices, we think will continue to do what they describe as mixed billing. They'll bulk bill pensioners and kids and people with a concession card, but maybe continue to charge gaps for others. There will be a bit of a mix, but I've carefully calibrated this policy to ensure that the vast bulk of general practices will be better off under the offer that we put on the table. They obviously have to make their own decision. They're private businesses, but we carefully calculated this huge investment, this unprecedented investment into Medicare, to make sure that practices were better off, individual GPs were better off, and most importantly, of course, patients will be better off.
 
SARA: But the better off might be a long way off. In the election campaign, the PM had his Medicare card out over and over again, telling voters they'd only need that card when they go to the GP. But even if your policies work as planned, it's going to take years to get these bulk billing rates to 90 per cent, and there'll still be 10 per cent of people who are paying additional costs. Has the Labor Government raised expectations beyond what you can actually deliver in the near term?
 
BUTLER: We've been pretty conservative about this. I talk to practices and doctors all the time who say from 1 November, which is when the money starts hitting practices if they do the right thing, they will move back to bulk billing. There will be a change very quickly, but we've been conservative about expectations, and have said that over the coming years we'll get back to 90 per cent. There will still be some people, particularly I suspect people on higher incomes, who will be paying a gap in some parts of the country. But this has been very focused middle Australia, those people on relatively low incomes still who don't qualify for a concession card, who've been finding themselves charged a gap fee when they go to the doctor. The concession card cuts out at about $40,000 a year for a single, so it's not a high income. For people who are being charged a gap fee who are paying above the odds for their medicines, too often we're finding people aren't getting the healthcare they need or filling the scripts that they've been given by their doctor because of costs, and that's why we're going so hard to turn around bulk billing. That's why we're going so hard on making medicines cheaper.
 
SARA: Minister, we'll need to leave it there. Thank you for your time in the studio this morning.
 
BUTLER: Thanks, Sally.