Radio interview with Minister Butler, 4BC – 23 July 2025

PETER FEGAN, HOST: It was a major election pledge – Anthony Albanese promised $8.5 billion would be splurged on Medicare. In fact, it was a record spend. The package included $18 million to spent on increasing bulk billed GP visits. Now, this is a great initiative by the Government, don’t get me wrong. The goal is to 90 per cent bulk bill GP visits by 2030, which is fantastic in theory. I think most people will agree that a free GP visit is very positive. But there’s one problem: there are a large number of GPs that have said they would not be moving to full time bulk billing. GPs maintain that the subsidy provided to the clinic does not cover the full cost of the visit. So, for example, if a patient runs in and, let’s say, is in there for around 10 minutes and they just want a script – I did that recently – no problem. But what happens if the patient’s sitting inside the doctor’s office for over an hour? Well, the GP says that the subsidy falls short.
 
Federal Health Minister Mark Butler maintains that GP clinics will gain financially if they join. And I’m pleased to say the Federal Health Minister joins me on the line. Minister, great to have your time.
 
MARK BUTLER, MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGEING, MINISTER FOR DISABILITY AND THE NDIS: Morning, Peter.
 
FEGAN: Now, this is going to be very interesting. And I’ve said, I’ve gone on the record and said this is a great initiative for the Government, don’t get me wrong. But do you maintain that GPs will be better off? Because it’s a tough sell. Internal Health Department analysis suggests, Minister, that 23 per cent, or one in four, do not want to join because of insufficient financial benefit.
 
BUTLER: I was very open about that on the day we announced the policy back in February 2025. There’s been some sort of really bizarre reporting of this over the last 24 hours, this is some revelation that was never talked about during the election campaign. In the media release where I announced this policy with the Prime Minister, I said basically three quarters of general practices will be better off under our arrangements; a quarter might not be, we don’t expect them necessarily to take it up. And yet, some media commentators who’ve looked at the department's incoming government brief after the election have taken a view this is some extraordinary sort of Watergate-style revelation. We talked about this openly, if three-quarters of practices are bulk billing at 100 per cent and a quarter of practices are doing it at some lower rate, you get to 90 per cent bulk billing, which is what we committed to the day we announced the policy. The extraordinary thing is that the Liberal Party is now saying this is some extraordinary revelation and some betrayal of the policy we put in place.
 
FEGAN: Well, I think, Minister -
 
BUTLER: They backed to policy. Are they suggesting they didn't even read the media release that I issued about the policy?
 
FEGAN: But I think, to be fair, Minister and on some of this commentary, let me just say this. To be fair, yes, you did say one in four. You and I spoke about it face to face in this studio. But let's be brutally honest, the Prime Minister didn’t, and he went around with a big cut out copy of a Medicare card spruiking 90 per cent bulk billing by 2030. Now, here lies the issue. It's not going to be the reality. It's not going to be 90 per cent. Yes, you were very honest about it, but hang on, Minister, it's not going to be 90 per cent. If one in four are saying no, it doesn't add up to 90 per cent, unfortunately.
 
BUTLER: Well, it does. We're going to get into a maths argument here, Peter, but if 75 per cent are saying we'll do 100 per cent bulk billing, and then 25 per cent are saying we'll do something less than that, they're not saying they'll do none, but they're saying they won't bulk bill 100 per cent. If Gina Rinehart comes through their front door, they're not going to bulk bill her. But they'll bulk bill pensioners, they'll probably bulk bill kids. That's how we got to the 90 per cent figure. The report published by the department reflects exactly the policy we announced in February. How the Liberal Party, including Sussan Ley and Anne Ruston the Shadow Health Minister, missed this detail, given it was on page one of the policy before they committed to supporting it fully, is sort of extraordinary to me.
 
Now, the thing about whether general practices will be better off, this is important. GPs a couple of years ago, a fully bulk billing GP working full time, so bulk billing everyone that came through his or her front door, would have earned about $280,000 in Brisbane. After our changes, they'll earn more than $400,000. In the bush, they'll earn $460,000, a huge wage increase to reflect something that we as the Labor Party think is critically important, more bulk billing. They will be better off. There are some practices, particularly in the very wealthy suburbs of our cities, where they're charging big gap fees, people are able to pay them, they may not take up this policy. We've tried to be as honest as we can about that, which is why our commitment, the Prime Minister's commitment, the one I made time and time and time again during the campaign, was that three quarters of practices would be fully bulk billing, and that would take us to a 90 per cent bulk billing -
 
FEGAN: Yeah, look, and again, I don't want to get into an argument about maths, Minister, but I think to the Australian public it doesn't add up. But here's what I want to ask you, a hypothetical, if you will. By 2030, let's say you walk into a GP clinic and it says bulk billing on the front door, which is attractive. And doctors and GPs, let's be honest, Minister, are a business. So let's say a family walks into a GP and they go, bulk billing on the big sign, neon sign. You know, we all walk in, bulk bill, right? Goes into the doctor, the doctor says, in my opinion, I don't want to bulk bill you. I think that I'm going to charge you a gap or I'm not going to bulk bill you. What happens then?
 
BUTLER: They don't get the money from the Government, and this is the point. I've seen the AMA is in the paper this morning saying what they want is for us to give over the money, taxpayers' money, to doctors with no strings attached. The doctors' groups, in their defence, they were frank about this from the get-go. They wanted us to fund them more but not have a commitment to bulk billing or a condition of bulk billing tied to that. I said to them, I'm not going to do that. Particularly as a Labor Health Minister, I want to see outcomes for patients on bulk billing.
 
FEGAN: Yeah.
 
BUTLER: There's been a disagreement between us and doctors' groups about this. But the three-quarters figure of practices is based on the fact that our department has very good information about what every GP is earning through Medicare, what they're earning through Medicare -
 
FEGAN: But they're a business. They're allowed to earn, aren't they?
 
BUTLER: Exactly, I've never contested that. But we know exactly what they're earning, and we said that if we lift the rebate for bulk billed consults and pay them an additional incentive on top, they will be financially better off. We can guarantee that because we have exact information about what they're currently earning. What we did was compared what they're currently earning to what they'd earn on a fully bulk billing arrangement with our extra funding. Now, if GPs choose not to do that, well, that's their right. They're private businesses, as you say, but they'll be cutting their noses off to spite their face because we know they would be financially better off, and certainly their patients would be better off if they take up the very generous offer the Government is making.
 
FEGAN: We're talking about bulk billing rates and we're talking GPs, one in four, that have said that they will not pass up on the bulk billing offer. I just wanted to ask you this, Minister, and I know that you and I have discussed this before, but I think it's a fair argument. And you actually made the point during this interview about, say, someone like Gina Rinehart walks into a doctor's surgery, they're not going to bulk bill. I don't want to be bulk billed because I can afford to go to a doctor. I mean, are we still allowed to pay? Like, if I want to pay, I should be able to, surely. I mean, have we got that option?
 
BUTLER: Sure, we're a free country. They're private businesses. But for us, bulk billing really is the beating heart of Medicare.
 
FEGAN: Yeah.
 
BUTLER: We've had to fight tooth and nail for it for more than 40 years since Bob Hawke created the system. The problem now is for pensioners and for concession card holders, we’ve turned that bulk billing rate around, and that’s comfortably now over 90 per cent because of big investments we made in 2023. But for people who don’t have a concession card, many of them are not on big incomes, on relatively low incomes because the concession card cuts out at about $40,000 a year for a single. Their bulk billing rates are plummeting, and that's really the focus of this policy. We want to turn that around for middle Australia who really do depend on the ability to get healthcare for free when they need it. That's why we're cutting the cost of medicines, focusing so much on bulk billing and rolling out free Urgent Care Clinics as well, because the cost of healthcare is not just important for your hip pocket, it's also critical for your health.
 
FEGAN: Before I let you go, it's been a big week back in Parliament already. We've seen the theatrics, they're back, the first sitting since the election. I just wanted to ask you, Minister, about Greens Deputy Leader Mehreen Faruqi, who brandished a sign calling for Israel to be sanctioned during the Governor-General Sam Mostyn's address marking the official return to Parliament. Everybody has a right to protest, but there's a time and time and a place, Minister, would you agree?
 
BUTLER: Completely agree. I completely agree with that. I'm a big defender of the right to protest, but the thing about our democracy is the transition or the resumption of power after a peaceful election is something that marks us out from so many other parts of the world. And a bit of respect during some of those really important ceremonies would not go astray for people like her, I've got to say.
 
FEGAN: Yeah, I agree. Hey, what seat do you get today? Are you behind the PM?
 
BUTLER: A little behind and out there. If it was a Melbourne Cup field, you'd think, oh, he's going nowhere.
 
FEGAN: Is he really giving you seating arrangements, or is that a bit of a gee-up?
 
BUTLER: No, we do always have seating arrangements.
 
FEGAN: Okay.
 
BUTLER: And I think I'm in exactly the same place I was last term.
 
FEGAN: Good on you, Minister. Always great to have you -
 
BUTLER: Gone backwards.
 
FEGAN: It's always great to have your time, Minister. We'll chat again soon.
 
BUTLER: Thanks, Peter.
 
FEGAN: There he is, Federal Health Minister Mark Butler.