Radio interview with Minister Butler – 13 February 2025

PETER FEGAN, HOST: Joining me on the line now is the Federal Health Minister, Mark Butler. Minister, great to have your company this morning.
 
MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGED CARE, MARK BUTLER: Good morning, Peter.
 
FEGAN: Now, Minister, you were very strong on this yesterday, and you should be commended for being so. But firstly, and I respect that there is an open investigation. But Minister, how can you be sure that these two didn't actually hurt people as they suggested they have. Have we been able to clear that up?
 
BUTLER: I know Ryan Park, the New South Wales Health Minister, is undertaking an inquiry with his department. Just to be very clear what these two people have done in the past, and check that no one has been hurt or mistreated. I fully endorse what the New South Wales Government is doing on this. I've watched the video a couple of times yesterday, but listening to it again then Peter, it is so shocking and sickening to hear two health professionals talking about that. For 2,500 years since the Hippocratic Oath was first developed, the most fundamental principle of health care is that doctors and nurses treat whoever comes before them without fear or favour, without any discrimination. That just chills you to the bone. To have two health professionals working in the New South Wales health system, suggesting not just that they wouldn't care for someone because of their faith, but they might actually kill them.
 
FEGAN: I know the police are investigating, so I just want to ask you this Minister, and I think you've nailed it. You've nailed the sentiment here in Australia as well, and that is that it is as shocking as it comes. But Ahmad Nadir, he's the male. He makes throat slashing gestures. Sarah Lebdeh is the woman in the video, she says that she'll kill Israeli patients. These are legitimate death threats. Now, I can't threaten somebody's life on the street without being locked up. So my question is, how are they not both in custody?
 
BUTLER: That's a matter for the New South Wales Police. I understand there's a police investigation going on this. My particular focus is to try and protect the integrity of our health care system. I have been shocked by the level of antisemitism that has arisen in our country since the Hamas attacks on Israel on the 7th of October, the year before last. My great, great grandparents came to this country to become part of the thriving Jewish community in Melbourne, and they were welcomed. They were able to live a fulfilling, contributing life in this country. I know they would be shocked that 130 years after that, there is a level of antisemitism we're seeing in this country, and to see it in the health care system of all places is deeply, shocking.
 
I see my job and other health minister's jobs as being, first of all, to protect all Australians, particularly Jewish Australians, against these two people. They've been stood down from New South Wales health. That's obviously a good thing. I'm advised by the New South Wales Government, obviously, we're in close discussion with them every couple of hours. I'm advised that the relevant New South Wales authority that has responsibility for their registration as nurses has been asked to consider an interim suspension of their registration as a nurse because I'm worried that even though they've been suspended from New South Wales health, I don't want them working in another private hospital or an aged care facility. We've got to lock these people out of the health system entirely.
 
FEGAN: Do you have the authority and how are you going to Minister, ensure that they are banned across the entire country?
 
BUTLER: Our system operates on the basis in New South Wales and Queensland, that the relevant state authority has to suspend their registration. And as soon as that happens, and I want to see it happen as soon as possible, but as soon as that happens, that applies right through the rest of the country. If the New South Wales authority suspends their registration as nurses in New South Wales, they are then unable, for example, to cross the border and try and get a shift at a hospital in Queensland or Victoria. I want to see that happen as soon as possible.
 
But I've also asked my department for advice about how we stop them moving into another part of the system. For example, going into an aged care facility not as a nurse but as a carer. I'm doing everything that I can to make sure these two people are not put in touch in a caring sense with any Australian again. I'm really conscious to do that. But I also want to reassure Jewish Australians that it's not just this instance. I know that this has deeply hit the confidence of Jewish Australians in their ability at the most vulnerable time in their lives when they need their healthcare system to get that sort of health care without fear or favour, irrespective of their faith. We have to reassure all Australians, but particularly Jewish Australians, that our healthcare system has zero tolerance, absolutely zero tolerance for any discrimination in the treatment of patients based on their faith or race or anything for that matter.
 
FEGAN: My guest this morning is the Federal Health Minister, Mark Butler. We are discussing this disgusting video that has surfaced out of Bankstown Hospital. Two nurses threatening to kill Israeli patients. They're threatening not to treat them. I'll ask you this though, Minister, and I've been a bit conscious in my mind about asking you it, but I think it's very fair that we do. There are examples that we see of antisemitic behaviour where people have been forgiven. In 2 to 3 months’ time if these two nurses stand up, they apologise to the Israeli community. People accept their apology, all is forgiven and we've banned them for life will you, are we stopping people from working? I think it's a fair question. I would never like to see them work again in the health sector, but I think we've got to ask it?
 
BUTLER: This is such a fundamental breach. I can't imagine a more fundamental breach of the central ethical principle of health care that you care for everyone that comes before you without fear or favour. I mean, just over and above the fact that they said they'd refuse treatment for Jewish people, they also said they'd kill them. I don't know how you come back from that. I do not know how you ever come back from that as a health professional.
 
FEGAN: Yeah, I think you're right. But I think the question has some merit. I just want to ask you on the New South Wales Police investigation, have you been briefed? Do we know where it's at yet? I understand the last I heard; they were due to go into a police station?
 
BUTLER: No, look, I haven't been briefed on that. My connection with the New South Wales government obviously is with the health department. I'm very keen to make sure I am providing, and the Commonwealth is providing any possible support New South Wales health needs. I had a discussion with the New South Wales Minister last night, who I think has dealt with this exceptionally well, very strongly, very quickly. In terms of the New South Wales Police investigation, I don't have any other insights.
 
FEGAN: Has Anthony Albanese done enough as the leader of this country to stamp out antisemitic behaviour and Islamophobia as well?
 
BUTLER: I think we've all been shocked. All Australians have been shocked, particularly Jewish Australians, about the levels of antisemitism. And we have acted very strongly in this area.
 
FEGAN: But yes or no, Minister, has he done enough?
 
BUTLER: We've put through legislation in the Commonwealth Parliament to outlaw the use of the Nazi symbol and to outlaw hate speech. We did that last week, as well as to outlaw doxing, which has been a particular weapon used against Jewish Australians. Now, we have acted very, very strongly. But importantly, beyond all of the laws that we've passed and we've passed a lot in the last year and a half, you've got to have the clearest possible statement from our nation's leaders that there is zero tolerance for antisemitism, absolutely zero tolerance. Some of the stuff we see in our Jewish schools, in Jewish nursing homes, is a level of hate not directed at any other group in our community. I can tell you, as the Minister responsible for aged care, aged care facilities that care for Jewish Australians, some of them survivors of the Holocaust, are being targeted.
 
FEGAN: It's sickening.
 
BUTLER: They’re being targeted with violence and having to employ security guards to protect people in their 90s as they sleep. I mean, this is just appalling and should never be something we see in this country.
 
FEGAN: Well said, Minister, thanks for your time today.
 
BUTLER: Thanks, Peter.