Transcript - ABC Southern Queensland Drive with Craig Zonca - Wednesday 17 April 2013
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Topics: National plan for school improvement; Higher Education; NBN; Budget; Living Organ Donation Support
Craig Zonca: From Gonski to fast internet and a little bit of crystal ball gazing ahead of the 2013 federal budget, let's dive into the pool that is federal politics. And to dissect the key stories of the week, welcome back to ABC Local Radio Queensland, Liberal Senator Sue Boyce.
Senator, good afternoon. Hang on. I need to press this button here. Senator. I should have you there now. Good afternoon.
Boyce: G'day, Craig, and good afternoon to your listeners.
Zonca: And on the other side of politics, the Labor Member for Blair, Shayne Neumann.
Mr Neumann, welcome to the program.
Neumann: G'day to you, Craig, and g'day to Sue and all your listeners as well.
Zonca: And I think, Senator, you're actually in Biloela at the moment, aren't you?
Boyce: I am in beautiful downtown Biloela where the car is telling me it's 31 degrees. It's a gorgeous day.
Zonca:Tell us why you're there.
Boyce: I'm here as part of a - the first Senate campaign tour for the LNP for the upcoming election. I'm here with Ian Macdonald and the local member for Local Member for Flynn, Mr Ken O'Dowd, James McGrath, Matt Canavan, and Theresa Craig, our other Senate candidate.
Zonca: So, the campaigning has well and truly started, Shayne Neumann. I guess every day's a campaign for you. Is that how you treat it at the moment?
Neumann: It is. I feel a bit lonely here in Ipswich by myself, Craig, when Sue's out there with all her reinforcements out there. No, I'm campaigning seven days a week. I think I'm up to mobile office 286 since the last federal election and I'll be at the Kilcoy Show this Saturday and we'll have mobile offices all around Ipswich as well.
Zonca: There you go. Well, let's start off by talking about the Gonski reforms. The Prime Minister announced extra funding of $14 billion for schools around the country. This was over the course of the weekend. Three point eight billion of that would be for Queensland and Julia Gillard is asking the local State Government to chip in a third of that funding.
Shayne Neumann, to you first on this. Can you explain as simply as possibly why Labor thinks this is the way forward?
Neumann: Well, David Gonski and his committee said that the system's broken and if we don't do something about it, we'll keep falling behind in terms of our standards, in terms of literacy, numeracy, science and maths. And what we've established here is a framework for the future. This is a once in a generation opportunity.
Queensland schools will get the benefit of $3.8 billion and we're talking about either getting the Gonski commitment from Queensland and the Federal Labor Government or Queensland missing out by a billion dollars over the coming years if the new funding model's not adopted.
Zonca: And how would that money be spent? Can you just be clear as to what that money is for?
Neumann: Well, that mainly will be established and given to schools based on a school resource standard so that every student in Queensland, for example, will get in primary school, allocated for their educational needs, about $9300 and about $12,200 for every high school.
And there'll be extra money through loadings for schools and students that need more support. For example, low SES students, indigenous students, students with limited English capacity in those schools, and kids with disability. So, school size and location will be taken into consideration and each school's overall funding will be calculated using the per student amount plus the loading.
So, we think here in Queensland, we'll benefit to the tune of $3.8 billion. This will, of course, be a big improvement on what would happen otherwise where Queensland would lose a billion dollars and there'd be $1491 per student less over the coming years and another $643,000 per school lost if Campbell Newman doesn't sign up to the Gonski reforms this Friday.
Zonca: Okay. So, that's what's on the table at the moment. Senator Boyce, what's your take on this funding plan?
Boyce: No. Not completely unsurprising. What Shayne's just said really does not stand up to examination. For a start, Gonski recommended $39 billion over four years, not $14 billion over six years. So, we have the danger that we'll end up with a situation like we have with the NDIS on something that could very well fail because it's under funded and under resourced.
When you look across the board and look at what the government - the Federal Government's actually offering, it's $9.4 billion that they're prepared to put up over six years. They want the states to pay for the rest of it. And they've already taken $11 billion out of the system all up and they're expecting universities and other areas to pay some of the costs of this per child outcome for primary and secondary school education.
It doesn't make sense in terms of the long term future of Australia to be robbing some of the money for this out of universities.
Zonca: But on that point, Senator Boyce, what's the Coalition's alternative at this stage?
Boyce: Well, as we said, we'll wait and see what happens at the COAG meeting on Friday. If all the states do not sign up to this, and I suspect from some of the things that we've heard already that that's going to be the case, we could end up with a mishmash, yet again, of different system and different funding models for different states.
That is no better outcome at all for national education. I mean, certainly we very much support the idea of standardising education across Australia to make it easier for families in rural areas and anywhere to move from state to state or from region to region. But it's pointless if this government can't get their act together and get agreement from all the states on it.
And once again they've done this sort of take it or leave it thing where they wait - they haven't even announced all the details yet. I've had disability groups ring me and I noticed there was some publicity on this the other day saying they haven't really got a clue what the government is promising will, in fact, assist students with disabilities at all.
And - but no details but just sign up. It's once again another one of the - Ms Gillard's attempts to take the high moral ground without having explained to anybody what's actually on the ground.
Zonca: And I might cut in there, if you don't mind, Senator, and throw it back to you, Mr Neumann. One of the points that Senator Boyce was raising there was about that $2 billion of the money being funded towards the $14 billion overall going back to schools is being taken out of that funding pool for universities, as I've read over the past few days.
Regional Queensland universities say this will significantly hurt them. So, is this a case of cutting education to fund education?
Neumann: That's nonsense, actually. In fact, we listened to Senator Boyce, we'd be cutting $5.4 billion from out schools over the next five years based on…
Boyce: I don't remember [indistinct]….
Neumann: [Talks over] …on the commitment of Christopher Pyne and what he said.
And look at what the Catholic school system and the independent school system and the government school system have said they want us to sign up to Gonski. They want us to accept this proposal and this is nonsense, this idea, that we're stripping away the money that Christopher Pyne and Sue Boyce have talked about.
But on the issue of the higher education funding; we, the Commonwealth, under this government has increased funding by more than 50 per cent from 2007 to 2012. There's 146,000 extra Commonwealth supported university placements. That's a 34 per cent increase.
We're seeing a massive increase in infrastructure as well. You only have to look at some university campuses in South East Queensland. Look at the University of Queensland at Gatton where you've got the School of Veterinary Science and a wonderful gym and pool and other types of things established there with Federal Government funding.
University of Queensland Ipswich, where you've seen the health precinct established with Federal Government funding. University of Southern Queensland, where you've got $50 million of Federal Government funding in the gateway infrastructure capital improvement project, which is going to revolutionise that campus.
So, we're actually massively increasing. What we're doing here is saying - using some efficiency dividends, some changes in terms of start up scholarships, and some getting rid of some assistance in terms of discounts to actually make sure that we actually invest.
And this is a - this Gonski recommendations have been taken up by this government, contrary to what Senator Boyce has had to say. You can see the systems and the stakeholders supporting this initiative. It's time for Campbell Newman and the LNP Government here in Queensland to get on board.
They said previously they'd accept dollar for dollar. We're offering two dollars federal for one dollar. It's time we get on board with Gonski.
Zonca: I'll come back in here, if you don't mind. That is the voice of the Federal Member for Blair, Shayne Neumann. Also joining him this afternoon is the Liberal Senator for Queensland, Sue Boyce, talking through some of the issues that you may have heard about over the past week or so and we await the outcomes of that COAG meeting that happens on Friday.
My name's Craig Zonca. It's ten to five on ABC Local Radio Queensland.
Let's move onto another topic and that is that of fast internet speeds. Both parties want to see that happen - or faster speeds than what we have at the moment, but both with very different models.
I'll come to you first Sue Boyce because the Coalition's plan is the most recent on that. So, what is in that Coalition idea for faster internet than what we have at the moment, particularly through regional Queensland? Can you put in layman terms for us?
Boyce: Well what we're offering regional Queensland is a cheaper system, about $300 a year less for regional areas. We intend to prioritise areas that have very poor internet coverage at the moment. We are offering speeds that are on average five times more than we currently have, and more than sufficient for what the majority of businesses and homes want to do.
There will of course be the option to pay for more if that's what you want. But we will bring fibre to the node, not fibre to the home, and save billions, at least tens of billions of dollars. We have no idea really how much we'll save because the NBN Co system currently is a bottomless pit, looking at potentially costing us up to $90 billion and [indistinct]…
Zonca: So in terms of that it comes down, and it seems to come down to the Coalition plan wanting to be cheaper than the current NBN plan from the Federal Government. Is that how you describe it, just a cheaper plan?
Boyce: Well, it's not a cheaper - just a cheaper plan. It's a cheaper and efficient plan that delivers the sorts of speeds up to five times what people have on average now, and meets their needs. It's not a Rolls Royce plan like the one that Stephen Conroy wants to develop, but it's a good, solid, Holden plan that is cost - with known costing, known pricing, five times faster speeds, and tens and tens of billions of dollars lower cost.
Zonca: Shayne Neumann, your response?
Neumann: That’s complete nonsense actually. The NBN at its peak funding will be $44 billion, the government equity of $30.4 billion…
Boyce: [Talks over] Well, that's more than, already done that…
Neumann: …and the Liberal plan is basically bad for the local economy in regional and rural Queensland, it's bad for local jobs, and bad for local businesses. What it's going to do…
Zonca: So when you say bad can you just explain why you say that?
Neumann: I'll explain why because the Liberal Party will make people in regional and rural areas pay up to $5000 to connect broadband to your home, where you're disconnected. They're going to disconnect nine million families and households in Australian suburbs, and if they follow…
Boyce: [Talks over] That's not true Shayne.
Neumann: If they follow what BT's done in the UK where there's fibre to the node, where they pay about 3100 pounds for - to connect broadband to your home, they're going to leave also the hundred year old copper wire. The big losers will be regional and rural areas…
Boyce: [Indistinct] it's not a hundred years old.
Neumann: …and guess what, under the Federal Labor Government's proposal, we've got universal wholesale pricing which will exist nation wide. And under Liberal's policy you'll pay more if you live in regional, rural areas, there's no universal national pricing policy. They're going to leave it up to the ACCC in relation to that issue.
But the other thing about this - we're doing fibre to the premises, it means that 93 per cent of Australians will get up to 100 megabits download, much faster than the Coalition, and we're looking at a situation where there's going to be 1000 megabits. And the Coalition on this are going to leave people. I really wonder whether Tony Abbott believes that families will sit around one computer, knowing that the average household will have many devices running at once, people doing their homework, people Skyping with family, doing their banking and shopping.
This is a Luddite solution from the Liberals, and regional and rural Queensland know it's a dud policy, it's fraud-band not broadband.
Zonca: Okay, Sue Boyce, a Luddite policy?
Boyce: No, no. Not a Luddite policy, I don't - last time I looked, the copper wire in Australia was not a hundred years old. And to be suggesting that optic fibres are going to be the cutting edge solution in ten years, when this Government would get up to 40 or 50 per cent of the houses in Australia at the rate they're currently going, is ridiculous as well.
Zonca: But it is more upgradeable than the copper network.
Boyce: It may well be. But we don't know what's coming in the future. The copper network will work for now, and it will work into the future. If it needs upgrading, that will be able to be done far more cheaply than this Government is currently producing its connections. And the other point is the fact that it's producing its connections at about a tenth of the rate that they said they would be rolling out the network, the costs are ballooning every second. They really, honestly don't know what it's going to cost them and we will be prioritising regional Australia, the ACC will certainly be given the job of looking at costings and ensuring that there is an equitable approach for rural Australia, as the Coalition Government has always done when they've had the opportunity…
Neumann: Well they've left them behind, Craig, they've left them at - you know, on average now it's $29.50 per month in terms of NBN connection, but the estimated average retail price of the Liberal policy is going to be about $66 per month. And in fact they're leaving regional Queensland behind. And you've just heard it from Sue Boyce now, they'll have this policy and then they'll need to upgrade. You've just heard it from her own words, they'll have this policy and then they'll have to upgrade…
Boyce: [Talks over] Well if it needs to be upgraded. But the fibre optics are going to need upgrading anyway Shayne.
Neumann:So it's this policy, plus in the future they'll do it. Whereas our policy is good to 2021 in terms of the roll out of the NBN and then it'll last for decades to come.
Zonca: I might come in here if you don't mind, it is five to five on ABC Local Radio Queensland. And yes you'll end up making up your mind when it comes to the better plan to - around about 14 September when you head to the polling booth, we are talking federal politics this afternoon, Senator Sue Boyce from the Liberal Party and Labor Federal Member for Blair, Shayne Neumann are with you this afternoon.
Couple of minutes away is news, and I just thought I'd throw in this one because in a few weeks time you'll be back in Canberra both for the Budget sitting week. So let's do a little bit of crystal ball gazing if you don't mind. And Shayne Neumann, what are you hoping for from this years Budget? Let's keep it to a 30 second précis of the 2013 Budget.
Neumann: A stronger economy and a fairer society. I'm looking forward to seeing funding for the National Plan for School Improvement, I'm looking forward to seeing the National Disability Insurance Scheme now called Disability Care Australia. But on a personal note as Parliamentary Secretary for Health and Ageing, I'm looking forward to seeing funding we're going to be doing the living donor paid leave, and that's $1.3 million. That's a new scheme we're bringing in, I'm looking forward to that and I'm also looking forward to seeing the funding for what we call the National Insurance Affordability Initiative which will help communities in South East Queensland and across Queensland with flood resilience and mitigation. In my electorate we may be seeing $10 million to improve flood mitigation, to get into the Ipswich City Council and are looking forward to seeing these rolled out in the Budget.
Zonca: Shayne Neumann you're looking forward to something in this years Budget. Senator Sue Boyce, are you looking forward to anything in this years Budget?
Boyce: Well look, I would like to hope there was something to look forward to in this Budget. I've just been speaking to the Banana Shire Council who tell me that there has been no Commonwealth funding whatsoever in terms of disaster recovery for their businesses and their residents out of the most recent floods that have happened through this area. They're in despair about some of the businesses ever getting themselves back into gear, despite the fact that Senator Ludwig and co can't recognise that they have been damaged by floods with inundation throughout the place.
So I'm glad Shayne's getting $10 million for his electorate, but there's other electorates like Flynn, and the Banana Shire that certainly need some help. What would have been nice to see was the beginnings of some work towards a Budget that could come into surplus, or at least come out square. We know that we won't be getting that, that the deficit will just simply go up and up, and with the latest news out of the EU on the cost of carbon, it's time that the Government actually redid those figures - their Budget figures, and came clean on what the cost of insisting on staying with their fixed price carbon tax is going to be to the Budget over the next three years if they continue to go the way that they are.
I guess I - I'm hoping like mad that there'll be some very decent funding in there for the National Disability Insurance Scheme. As I said earlier, if we don't resource this scheme properly, we have - we run the risk that it will fall over and there will be so many broken hearts in the disability sector, given the expectations that have been built up by this Government around the area.
Zonca: Sue Boyce, I'll come in there because news is on our doorstep here. I appreciate your time speaking to us from Biloela this afternoon. Liberal Senator for Queensland, thank you very much.
Boyce: Thanks Craig.
Zonca: And also joining in this afternoon the Federal Labor Member for Blair, Shayne Neumann, thank you.
Neumann: Pleasure.
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