Transcript Interview with Leon Byner - 5AA Adelaide

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PDF printable version of Transcript Interview with Leon Byner - 5AA Adelaide (PDF 24 KB)

17 May 2011

Topics: Plain Packaging of Tobacco

Leon Byner: Let's talk to Health Minister Nicola Roxon.

Nicola, thanks for coming on today. What do you make of that?

Nicola Roxon: Well I've never heard such a big amount of hogwash, honestly. This is getting ridiculous.

We're now being accused of forcing them to go to the courts and of costing billions of dollars. Is there any one of your listeners who doesn't understand the cost to the health system of fixing up every illness and disease that is known to be caused by tobacco? It is billions of dollars and I've been on your show so many times talking about any range of health matters that need our attention and are worthy of expenditure.

This is one way that we know we can actually help tackle those problems. We can reduce the harm caused to people from smoking. We can free up money that is currently spent on the health system. And I think the louder and louder that the big tobacco companies yell and scream, the clearer it is that this matter - measure is actually likely to work...

Leon Byner: All right.

Nicola Roxon: ...stopping people smoking.

Leon Byner: A couple of things I'd like to clarify. Scott McIntyre reckons he's got an FOI document that shows that you've put a lot of money aside to fight them in court. Is that true?

Nicola Roxon: No. It's true that in the packages - money that we've put aside for plain packaging, that we've had to allow for some legal costs. That's normal and part of how we do business. The tobacco companies have made clear, all along, that they would challenge this legislation.

But I also want to clarify another allegation that's being made, which is that we're not consulting. We have actually consulted extensively, including with the tobacco companies. We've released an exposure draft of the legislation which is currently available for consultation. What the tobacco companies really mean is they don't like it if the consultations don't lead to us capitulating to their demands.

Leon Byner: All right. Now, they're saying - Scott McIntyre is saying that this new law will mean that he'll be cutting his prices to compete with cheap imports. Now in the event of that happening Minister, are you going to raise the taxes, because you would know that one of the reasons you put the money up, the taxes up, the excise, was to try and discourage smoking. So will you - if he discounts and his brands go the way of the competition, chop-chop and so on, will you compensate by putting the taxes up?

Nicola Roxon: Well, you're right that if you increase the price, or increase the tax, we do know that has an impact on encouraging people to quit. We don't have any current plans to increase the excise and I think we're in an extraordinary position that the companies are arguing about protecting their product and protecting their profits, and then they're saying they're going to voluntarily slash their profits so that they can get people hooked onto smoking. I mean this really is turning into a little bit of a nonsense argument from them.

Leon Byner: So you're not expecting them to sue us, the people of Australia for their - breach of their use of trade mark?

Nicola Roxon: Well I think that they will take litigation. They've made it very clear right from the beginning when this was announced some two years ago, that they would. I'm very confident that steps that are being taken to have an impact on the community of health will be protected ultimately by the courts. But, you know, they have rights the same way as anyone else to pursue this matter in the court if they want to, but we're not going to have those sorts of threats deter us from taking what we think is an important next step...

Leon Byner: Okay.

Nicola Roxon: ...to try to stop smoking rates, or reduce them.

Leon Byner: Scott McIntyre has alleged that your counterparts in the United Kingdom have feigned going down this same path, because they're worried about the legal implications. Do you have any information on that?

Nicola Roxon: Well look, the last time I had a discussion with the minister in the UK he was actually very interested about this measure. And we've just recently - known in a conference of international health advocates in Moscow, we've had many countries express interest and want information. We've had the American Secretary for Health congratulate us on the steps that we're taking. We've had the World Health Organisation publicly congratulate us and encourage others to take their steps.

So I think that this is partly why the tobacco companies are so determined to fight us. They're fearful that if it's successful in Australia, it might be introduced elsewhere. But ultimately the other very strange thing that's happening with this argument is we expected to be fighting big tobacco.

We did not expect to be fighting Tony Abbott who we thought would side with protecting Australian lives, not side with big tobacco.

Leon Byner: Okay, so your - is your advice that if this goes to court, our chances of winning are very good?

Nicola Roxon: Well we obviously take advice to make sure we give ourselves the best possible chance. We know that if you are acting in accordance with the desire to protect the public's health, that there is very strong support and legal grounds for that. We know the World Health Organisation has said this is a measure that countries should consider taking. We've taken advice on many, many other things and we believe that we've got a strong case.

We do know that we are breaking new ground, but we believe we are on strong legal ground.

Leon Byner: All right. So if this comes into effect, when you go and buy cigarettes, what - you'll see already a counter that's got covers on it so you can't even see the cigarettes, then you'll chose a brand and they open it up and give you a green packet.

Nicola Roxon: That's right. We've released mock-ups of what the packets will look like. It's in a very drab green colour.

Leon Byner: Yeah.

Nicola Roxon: The name and brand is just in standard font and standard size. The health warnings are much larger than they currently are. And, of course, that means if you buy the cigarettes and you take them from the shop...

Leon Byner: All right.

Nicola Roxon: ...you can't - you can't be waving them around and using them...

Leon Byner: All right.

Nicola Roxon: ...and obviously that's part of the advertising to other consumers.

Leon Byner: Now Nicola, what will happen with tourists who go away and buy duty free cigarettes and bring them back here, that haven't got the plain packaging?

Nicola Roxon: Well, packages of any type of tobacco that's sold in Australia will be covered by this legislation.

Leon Byner: Yeah.

Nicola Roxon: There will be, of course, you know, people saying that if you buy clothes overseas...

Leon Byner: Sure.

Nicola Roxon: ...or something else, that people would be able, in small amount, to bring back with them. We don't have the ability to change the regulations in other countries.

Leon Byner: What about people buying cigarettes on the Internet?

Nicola Roxon: There's a range of issues that are difficult ones; the Internet, the way duty free regimes will apply if they're bought outside the country. We've got a big challenge to make sure that this law can apply properly here in Australia, and that's the vast majority of where people will buy their cigarettes. There are other issues that will still need to be worked through - how we regulate loose leaf tobacco, cigars, and the Internet is another one of those issues. But we need to do this one step at a time.

Leon Byner: Okay. Nicola, thanks for joining us.

Ends.